43 replies to this topic

[malolactic]

I have a yellow that has been holding for almost 3 weeks. I have heard of milking the fry from their mouths...how do ya do it?

thanks in advance

[Atlantis Aqua]

Quite simple really.
First up yes she is about ready to spit em out. I personally " Milk " my fish, some people dont like it but i never have had any problems from it. Yes my method will stress the fish out, all i do oretty much is stick some airline down the mouth and suck and blow. Sounds pretty gross but works a treat and you can pretty much get all the babies out.

Hope this helps.
Marc
Btw i work at Atlantis aquariums and if you wanna demo in the next week or so come down cause i got to milk a venustus and would be happy to show you.

[Barca888]

I tried milking my yellow lab once. Opened her jaw with my nail and dipped her head in the water. Nothing came out and it was difficult to open her mouth again. Just give her a nice home by her self and she might do fine.

*i will never try milking such a small fish again.

[Anita ozfish]

I'm with you Barca
yellows are such good holders and have such a small mouth, it's hardly worth the trauma of milking them, besides you miss out on seeing all the fun then
Put her in a small tank by herself or a floatie ice cream container and sit back and relax

electral@bigpond.com | web | Sydney, Australia.

[me]

I always milked my hongi but they got used to it.
when theyw here ready one of the females would kindly let me pick her up and she wud almost help get the babies out.
the other was agro as so she was hard to milk.

[00 Electric 00]

YEah im with you balke.

bara i do the same with you first time is really hard.....

after a few times they know whats happeneing and sometimes i dont even need to pen there mouths just spit into bucket ALL of them and then i throw her back in

[Mazimbwe]

why milk?
I mean the benefits of putting the holding female in a "Floaty", aside from the entertainment, is that;
1) you ensure the "Imprinting" in the fish you are breeding.
2) increased growth-rate in fry.
3) ability to feed the female, independant from the rest of the tank, in order to ensure she is at optimum health/condition when returned to the group.

Besides, it is not like you are breeding the only breeding-specimens of you species of fish. It just seems to me that there is no need to give yourself more work and the fish more stress.

I catch my holding females(mouth-brooding Malawi's) after they have been holding for 10-14 days. I use fairly large floaty's and try to make them from black ice-cream containers, darkness makes the girls feel safe/comfortable.
I have found that if I catch them to early they might spit/swallow the eggs. And if I leave it too late they find it hard to settle in the floaty, which means they hang on to the fry as long as possible.
What happens for me is that, after a few days(to a week) she will be comfy enough to let very small particles of food into her mouth, for her or the fry/wrigglers I can't say, but I am sure this early feeding is one thing that helps improve the growth-rate of un-milked fry.
Then after she has stopped picking the yougsters up I feed her floating pellets which she crushes so the fry get a feed too.

Sorry for the Essay but, HTH

[Anita ozfish]

I don't know why people like to milk Maz - it really annoys me actually. I know there are times when milking is necessary but to milk for milkings sake is just PBS. It seems to be quite trendy to do this in the last few years - a bit like eating out every night.
I love the typical reply that it saves the condition of the fish. Most fish will not breed or hold if they are not in top nic anyway and it is natural for them to hold full term. If your fish can't carry full term without dying of starvation, you shouldn't be breeding them in the first place
Steps down from her soapbox in a huff

electral@bigpond.com | web | Sydney, Australia.

[me]

The only reason i milked my fish is because i was told you get more fry out of it?
was i mis informed!

[Mazimbwe]

Blake: Ok mate, let's look at that question.

How would/could milking increase the number of fry turned out by your fish?
The number of furtilised eggs held in the females mouth does not change with milking.
The female will spawn again when in condition and when her cycle comes Full-circle...I don't think milking will contribute to her condition. If anything it may stress her which means it takes longer for her to regain condition.

Besides, how many fry do you want/need mate?
If I remember right you were swamped with hongi fry that you couldn't move and had no room to accomadate so the benefits of milking(to increase fry numbers) seem to be deminishing as this Thread continues.

[Anita ozfish]

Codswallop Blake
Agreed, sometimes when a fish is young or inexperienced, it will eat the fry but there is always a reason for this and it usually happens within the first 10-14 days anyway. The reasons for earl;y eating of the eggs could be that they are infertile in the first place and milking won't help there. Inexperience is another. Some are just compulsive eaters of eggs and these are the ones that should be milked but after 14 days, you don't really have to worry.
Funny story though, I had a 7bar with a mouthful recently and didn't milk her (I usually do these within 2 days of spawning). Next time I looked the eggs were gone - typical, I thought - but then about 2 weeks later I spotted the girl with the ever so slightest mouthful and after milking her, she had 25 heads and tails so in my opinion, she ate the infertile eggs and decided to hold the rest. Why did I milk her then? I was worried she would still eat them and was basically habit as my 7 bars always eat their mouthfuls. Maybe now I can let this particular one hold to full term in future???

electral@bigpond.com | web | Sydney, Australia.

[Mazimbwe]

One thing I notice.
Anita is talking about 7 Bar Fronny's...rare, valuable and unusual. Plus I notice you, Anita, have a history of those fish eating their eggs.
IMO, that is reason enough to milk those fish. With my own egg-eaters, because they were not rare and because they have been young, I just let them go. I figure they will learn...which has been the case.

[Barca888]

Well I think you would have to be a pretty poor fish keeper if your female died while holding the eggs. The first time my female had eggs in her mouth the yellows rock territory got taken over by a tropheus i think (my dominate male got beaten). My female was rockless and chased alot in a 700 litre with 12 inch oscars. I did still find a few fry in the tank.

Yes i do live in a small house and cant add any more aquariums. I keep some large american cichlids with african malawis. The americans dont seem to mind the not too high ph and hardness.

After watching so many africans getting eaten by my oscars, i find that the electric yellow has to be one of the most intelligent fish in the business. Even though i lost two when they lost their rocks....

sorry that this is off topic

[Anita ozfish]

I was waiting for you to get back to the milking discussion - it didn't happen.
Just back on track then, I have a colony of O. sp Silver Torpedos and when they had their first 2 mouthfuls, I milked them because I didn't want to take the chance of losing the fry. Now I have just had 2 girls hold separately and FULL term in their own little tanks - so cool to watch them
Barca, ice cream floaties are good too for holding females and raising fry to a certain size so you won't need the extra tanks for a while till they are about 2 - 3cms.

electral@bigpond.com | web | Sydney, Australia.

[00 Electric 00]

ANITA

Quote:

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It seems to be quite trendy to do this in the last few years

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I dont think that is true trendy. I strip most of mine due to the fact of limited space!. I would belive thats the single most reason why people do it. I can either choose let them spit in main aquarium and losse them or milk them and get like 8 fry and throw her back.

If i had spare 2ft tanks for sure i would let them spit natuarally i think thats the coolest thing about fish when they spit the fry out and then suck them back in when i come close. (eg like on nemo when the children needed to go to school)

I'm open to donations if you want to protect my fish against milking!

[Mazimbwe]

hmmm...Scott, it is a bit hard to make out what you are actually saying in your post...but if you are saying that the yellows you have eat their own fry, when they are allowed to release in a Floaty, it may be your luck or tankside-manner.

I have used Floaty's, I have allowed the girls to "spit" in the tank and I have milked them. All of these styles will work(build the rockwork in the right way and spitting in the tank can be very successfull with high growth-rate) but I think Floaty's are the way to go. I have never lost any of my fry to the mother who spat in a Floaty.
I would only leave the mother in the Floaty, after spitting, for 2-4 days and when possible I would feed her 3-4 times/day.
I am not sure how/if this differed from your rutine Electric, but, "if" I understand you correctly, our experience with Floaty's is Poles-apart.

[mtchye]

I think this is a very debatable topic, especially that of the holding capabilities of young being affected by being stripped. However I agree that most would probably strip the fish due to a lack of space. In my case many of the females would not fit into an ice cream container, and even those that do may be a bit big for it, and would probably find it a bit claustrophobic!

I think there are several ways to do it, and no 'right' way. Certain species seem to be more prone to not holding eggs to term, and perhaps in captivity we will not be able to reproduce the conditions that they require to feel comfortable enough to hold to term. Then again perhaps the people who say that stripping affects the learning process of holding for the young are correct - and the breeders that fail to hold now were due to being stripped generations ago. Hard to say either way, as there has been so little research done on such things.

I'll stay out of the debate, but add in my two cents. IF you do choose to strip your fish I have found the easiest way is to get a tiny pippette. These are the 1ml types that have a little reservoir you squeeze to squirt. The tip functions well to open the mouth of the fish, and one squirt usually gets all the fry out. I find this to be least stressful on the fish. Like Maz, I strip at between 12 and 14 days as this means the eggs will have hatched and will not require tumbling. Some species like the maingano I have found hatch even earlier. Again not saying yay or nay to either viewpoint, just to reassure you we have never lost a fish to stripping, and most will begin feeding as soon as they are put back into the tank. If stripped at 14 days there seems to be little need for a separate tank to condition the female as they have usually lost little condition in this short period.

Hope that helps your original question.

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Perth Cichlid Society Forums

[Mazimbwe]

Yep, agree with your points Vince. I am in no way saying "Never Milk". I am just questioning the need to do so.

BTW...Floaty's do not have to be made from Ice-cream containers.
Any container will do and there are plenty of option...all you do is follow the same process as the DIY plans at www.sydneycichlid.com/frytank.html.

I have used a Floaty to great success with Haps as Big as F.rostratus with no problem.

[mtchye]

Yup, good point, what sort of containers did you use for the rostratus (a very big fish) and where did you get them from maz?

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Perth Cichlid Society Forums

[Mazimbwe]

Vince, all I used were/are catering tubs...like the ones you see at Coles and Woolies in their Salad Bar's. Another option is the Catering Ice-cream Tubs you can find at Wendy's, Baskin & Robins, etc, etc.

They are about 40cm long and around 15cm wide...absolutely perfect for Haps. Even great if you wanna add rocks into the tub without it sinking so your young can feel comfy.

HTH