11 replies to this topic

[Mr_docfish]

I know this would sound like a whinge.... but I have held this back for some time and I think it is worth mentioning:

What would you consider to be the species name for the "Crimson Tide Hap"

Most people that I have questioned in the past few years have always intended the name to mean Astatotilapia latifasciata



Others mean the "flame back" Pundamilia nyererei



From what I have seen written and from overseas forums, this is what I have seen:




It is even on the cover of the Cichlid News Oct 2004 as Pundamilia sp "Crimson Tide"


Has anybody actually got a "Crimson Tide" that is not H latifasciatus or a P nyererei?
If so, do you have a photo of it?


I think like the fate of many fish in the hobby, there are a lot of "Picture Book Taxonomists" . That is, someone has looked into a book, seen a picture of a fish and decided that, due to their abilities in Taxonomy (if they are not colour blind to start with) the picture of the fish is the same as the fish in their tanks, and disregards the name that came with the fish when they bought it. From there on, they sell the fish or the offspring under their new name...... and now we have confusion.

Naming the Victorian Haplochromides is disturbing enough, lets not go into common names for now for these fish... Please.


Or am I barking up the wrong tree.......?


Oliver

[dragonkeeper]

Thanks for that Oliver, I was pondering the same question...However was not able to decide how to post it.
Too many people think that a "common" name is enough,but, as we know it never is.

[Hood]

I too have found this confusing, when researching my own Astatotilapia's...

as there seems no difinitive, set name out there for these guy's...

I have even heard them referred to as "Zebra Obliquidens"!! among others...

[Mr_docfish]

'Zebra Obliguidens' is referring to A latifasciata..... which is not a 'Crimson Tide' (in its intended use of the name), which I believe is referring to Pundamilia sp.
The common name used for the P nyererei is normally 'Flame Back'.
Unfortunately, if a true P nyererei was imported into Australia, it has most probably crossed somewhere along the line with what was known as Haplochromis obliguidens several years ago, but can still be purchased under that name. The H obliguidens has several colour forms, the 'yellow', 'blue' and 'red back' forms, all of which can come out of the same parents in one spawn, depending on the genetics of the parents. It is in my opinion, that the majority, if not all, of the 'flame backs' are just a selective group of the 'red back' H obliguidens. (Just like people are selective in breeding the red top colour forms of the Labidochromis hongi, so it is becoming progressively more uncommon to see the orange and yellow top forms.) To prove it, look at the offsring of the 'flame backs'.... how many actually look as good as the male that they come from? and do you notice that many of them have a blue form and some have no red top, just the yellow? Many breeders do not raise their fish up to adult hood to notice this, it happens in the LFS, where the best ones are picked out, and the LFS is left with lesser coloured fish, showing the colour diversity of the group of young from the same breeder.

No one is to blame here for this mix up... but it has created a very big mix up, both over east and here.

[Mr_docfish]

Can I just bring this discussion back up for the benefit of the new members here....?

[Buccal]

I personally believe the name "crimson tide", shouldn't be used.
This way the only alternative is the correct scientific name, and if not it can't be cheated.

Both Steve exotic tropicals and Kev Malaga aquariums and also Bayfish had always labeled their Astatotilapia latifasciata as crimson tides,,,, usually in brackets after the scentifc name.
I'm pretty sure the lingo for Australia is crimson tides for Astatotilapia latifasciata.
But world wide crimson tide seems to be a broad name tag that covers a handful of this hap variety.

It's astounding just how many never ending varients there are.

Just to add,,,, the "ruti island flameback" hap nyererei is Rock solid Definetely pure as,,, all and I mean all, males are bright red with yellow and black barring.
All males look exactly the same, and all females look exactly the same.
Their bone and body structure is quite delicate and petite with a pointer nose when compared to the long time old flame back hybridized oz fish which has a squarer mouth and beefier head.

Edited by Buccal, 16 July 2015 - 07:51 PM.

[Mr_docfish]

Yes, since my comments regarding flame backs in 2008, the Ruti Island and other types have come into availability - it always takes time for good strains to become commercially available after being past from breeder to breeder.


I think the only way the name "crimson tide" can be removed from Latifasciata is to locate the real Pundamilia sp and get that going commercially.

[sajica]

If it's any consolation, I was thinking about this post earlier this week when someone asked me for Crimson Tides. A minor rant ensued.

[Chopstick_mike]

It seems I've ignited a great conversation again ,I've read this and found it deeply interesting and glad you brought it back up

Edited by Chopstick_mike, 16 July 2015 - 10:10 PM.

[emmz-cichlids]

I have a "crimson tide"
Sorry was supposed to post a pic before I finished :/
Male

Female


I purchased these two from a breeder, who I'm confident to say is a good breeder from all his progeny I've seen in his collection so I'm hoping that I do have the correct species lol

[hollis]

My understanding has always been that  the above species as an Zebra Obliquidens ..

Edited by hollis, 17 July 2015 - 04:00 PM.

[Buccal]

Name:   Astatotilapia latifasciata

Synonym:    Haplochromis latifasciata

Common name:    Zebra Obliquidens


Most of these Vic and tributaries locational fish can have many names.
Slang names make it even more confusing.

http://www.african-c...ke_Victoria.htm

Edited by Buccal, 17 July 2015 - 07:48 PM.