22 replies to this topic

[Donna]

I dont think there is anything nothing wrong with selective breeding as long as you are working within species and variants preserving the natural gene pool, for example chosing the most healthy, well coloured fish from a group for a breeding program, but what has happened with discus goes light years beyond those limits, into crossing of species variants, deep inbreeding and hybridisation.


Even the above is questionable when you think about it...I suspect that is how the lines became so tainted in the first place because of the artificial selection of discus that were suited to the ornamental aquarist, and those strains that survived better in the tanks. Money, money, money.

I agree with everything you say though Den. It will be up to ordinary people all over the world to preserve wild strains of everything including plants. One day the multi nationals will own the genome for the wheat and rice, and they will own the rights to the only fertiliser that makes it grow. Scary thought.

Regards,

Donna

[Den]

I guess one safe way to breed fish in captivitiy is to have a group and let them pair off naturally, which is what I generally do in most cases. But if a fish shows abnormal shape and/or colour I simply dont breed it thats the best I think I can do?

Cheers
Den

[Mr_docfish]

Oliver an explanation I found in the University report regarding the Heckel band that shows up is a result of wild Heckels being used to prop up the gene pool once a man made discus variety/strain becomes too inbred and starts throwing out too many deformed fry.
Den

Yes, that was the point of my question... but what upsets me is it is near impossible to find true boodlines of wild discus being commercially bred - so we have to buy wild caught (pillaged) fish from South America, where only a small number of fish will survive to breed and the rest are wasted. Also, 99% of people buying discus do not appreciate the wild colours when comparing the prices... a good example was when I received some wild green discus X albino (yes the breeder we have been dealing with often breeds back to wild strains of discus to keep the gene pool going, therefore holding up the integrity of the fish somewhat) and the only way I could sell them was to mention that even though they looked like wild greens, they were carrying the albino gene, so people were buying them for the albino gene, not the wild green bloodline..... go figure!!

I'd love to see the discus treated and respected like all other fish(i.e. tropheus, frontosa, peacocks, eartheaters etc) and that is their beautiful original strains preserved.
Cheers
Den

Until the overseas breeders start producing new colour strains of these fish, we are safe. And considering that Geophagus sp are not allowable imports, they are even more safe.



I firmly believe that line breeding is just as damaging to a sp as hybridization - it limits the gene pool to the desired colour and the original colour form will eventually be lost, and inbreeding will cause deformities eventually too. (eg: Aul jacobfreibergi 'otter point' = line bred 'eureka red' and line bred 'fire bird')
But as long as the locality name does not follow the fish after substantial line breeding (as in this above example), then at least there is a chance that the original colour form might still be found, and hopefully be bred by the purists.