38 replies to this topic

[gibbs]

If it were my shop I would never use the stuff, however I can understand using colour enhancers to verify the purity of a species, I have seen this done before and a good shop explained this process to me when I was visiting his shop, they were all hybrids in the end.

I don't see the point in making fish look pretty just for sales purposes, especially when it's the sale of dry goods, tanks, filters, foods ect that get the shop through. Fish do make up a small amount of sales but it is only a small profit margin.

It will be a great sales pitch but. "yeah that fish looks great, in a couple of weeks after you buy this fish it will look plain and boring, that's because we are juicing all our fish with this stuff". Do you really want to send the hobby down that path?

[Fox]

All great points..

If it were my shop I would never use the stuff,

I use to think the same thing until I saw what it does, I have never used White Crane or Aqua One pellets at home or and any shop I have worked at so I have never seen what those foods can do... WOW they work really well, really quickly.
Which leads me to your next comment:

however I can understand using colour enhancers to verify the purity of a species,

This is a VERY good point and one I hadn't thought of, Many times I have bought fish from Bay or A.I and have known it wasn't right, but wasn't 100% sure without it coloring.
So these foods would make it easier for someone to ID them.

I don't see the point in making fish look pretty just for sales purposes, especially when it's the sale of dry goods, tanks, filters, foods ect that get the shop through. Fish do make up a small amount of sales but it is only a small profit margin.

Midland Pet & Aquarium (Not my store, Only Manager) actually make more fish sales than big dry good sales. There was a time when it was the other way around, but with new suppliers and sometimes hard to find species, our fish sales have sky rocketed.
Yes it is only a small profit margin, And a little less lately as I have reduced it on the cichlids, But with the amount going out the door its making the fish do very well.


I'm unsure on this one....
The PCS members only make up a very small percentage of sales, most of my customers are new to the hobby or new to Malawi's. So they see a nicely colored fish and want it for their display. Those customers aren't into breeding, just wanting display tanks.

BUT......
I do like to look after the PCS members and respect their opinions.

If I do decide to continue to use it, I will put signs up and tell customers that is the food I'm using and what effect it has on the fish.


Has anyone used color food on American, Tangs, or African river species?

One thing I have noticed, after having a good look today. The food has only affected the Malawi's.

[Mr_docfish]

I only use it on the imported peacocks (most PCS users dont buy these, they prefer the rarer fish species). This is the ensure that what we import from farms in Asia are what we want them to be = stops hybridization.

there is no damage done to fish being fed this type of food if the food is fed moderately (if you look at our imported peacocks, you can still see those more well coloured than others = it is easier to sex them this way too...)

I find that nearly all cichlids will show a marked improvement in colour, whereas other fish varieties do not.

Some fish are more affected by it than others - 3 days of feeding with Electric blues will show a more marked improvement than with the similar feeding to peacocks.

If you look at the ingredients of any food that advertises that it colours fish, you will find an increased level of D-Acivated Animal Sterol (D3)..... as an example - if you get a chance to look at Hikari cichlid foods, you will notice the "Excel" range has more than double the D3 content of the "Staple". And for those people feeding NLS, and notice an improvement in colour, it is the D3 content.....

For some reason, D3 has a crazy effect on the colouration in cichlids... I am still looking into what other factors are involved, such as the Spirulina content (also known as PSB - Photo Synthetic Bacteria = Cyanobacteria)

I assure you that all good foods contain the same ingredients, just in different proportions.

As long as the foods are not abused, and all the fish in the tank are not made to look like steroid junkies, then there is no harm in using these foods (there are more pros than cons)..... For all those shops that overuse/abuse it, there is no need to advertise the use of it, it will be obvious from the start.

[Fox]

Thanks for your comments Oliver, Much appreciated.

As long as the foods are not abused, and all the fish in the tank are not made to look like steroid junkies

LOL


I think I will take your advice and use it on the less rare species, and only use it once a week. That way it pleases everyone, the new Malawi customers looking to buy fish for their display tanks & the customers that are after the rarer species wont be disappointed when they have females showing up in a couple of weeks instead of boys.


Cheers
Az

[werdna]

For what it is worth, I used to feed my malawis a home made food containing prawns, peas, zuchini and spirulina and found they coloured up and bred really early (My dimi comp male was fully coloured up and breeding at around 7cm).
I got sick of making the food all the time... it stinks! And blending prawns is not pleasant!
When I took them off it, they lost a bit of colour but got it back when they were a bit bigger.
No harm was done. I think the spirulina caused that.

And Az, we are in Australia, I dont care how many times you read food packages from America, colour has a u in it.
Just cos they are so fat and lazy and too busy shoving maccas and doughnuts down their throats to spell properly, doesnt mean you can.

Andrew

[Fox]

And Az, we are in Australia, I dont care how many times you read food packages from America, colour has a u in it.
Just cos they are so fat and lazy and too busy shoving maccas and doughnuts down their throats to spell properly, doesnt mean you can

LOL... Spell checker does it all for me

[Mr_docfish]

I use Mozilla........ and I use the British dictionary spell checker....... the Aussie one has less words in it.

[Link2Hell]

Az
I applaud your level of ethics in this thread

As the manager of an LFS you have found the thin line between
profit and ethics where something just doesn't feel right to
the hobbiest in you

Wise words by the Doc and a nice compromise idea by you Az
to use sparingly on the bread and butter Malawis wanted for display
and noting this on the tanks
Maybe a male only display tank with an Aqua One dislpay next to
it highlighting it's use in this area

I prefer the non heavily colour enhanced commercial foods but as
time goes on the hobby changes and new market direction is
born and hopefully educated to advance their new found hobby

Chris

[alexkrad]

For what its worth when I fed my cichlids the aqua one pellets, it turned their crap a bright red colour... not the best on white sand... hahaha

[Fox]

Az
I applaud your level of ethics in this thread

As the manager of an LFS you have found the thin line between
profit and ethics where something just doesn't feel right to
the hobbiest in you

Wise words by the Doc and a nice compromise idea by you Az
to use sparingly on the bread and butter Malawis wanted for display
and noting this on the tanks
Maybe a male only display tank with an Aqua One dislpay next to
it highlighting it's use in this area

I prefer the non heavily colour enhanced commercial foods but as
time goes on the hobby changes and new market direction is
born and hopefully educated to advance their new found hobby

Chris

Thanks Chris I appreciate the comments

For what its worth when I fed my cichlids the aqua one pellets, it turned their crap a bright red colour... not the best on white sand... hahaha

LOL yes Ive seen that before... Looks like lots of little red worms

[Salpon]

What about the issue of where shops get their fish from? And what the supplier has been feeding them? Often fish are sold very quickly after arriving and it won't make a difference what the store feeds them.

I have purchased several peacocks from Exotic in wanneroo which were brilliantly coloured and was assured that they were males. Turned out half of them were females and they all lost a lot of colour (although it has slowly returned). When I went back to the store and asked what they were fed I was given a story about how they come from Singapore where they are bred in a large man-made lake and that's why they look so good. Not exactly the answer I was looking for. I am now convinced that they were heavily colour fed, even if the store didn't know or didn't want to admit it.

On the other hand, I purchased some peacocks from Malaga Aquariums which were alright looking, nothing stunning, and I was told right from the start that they had been colour fed and would probably lose some of their colour when I took them home. I have a lot of respect for this store for disclosing this to their customers and will continue to go there.

[Fox]

After feeding AquaOne Cichlid Pellets, I have found:

Several Benga peacocks in a batch of A. kandeese
A few O.lithobates Zimbawe Rocks in a batch of O.lithobates Domwe Island
1 Perspicax in a batch of Polits....

So for the above reasons I'm glad I stuck with it. I don't feed a lot of it, but enough to show a little color. Imagine getting these fish home and after a few months realising they aren't what you paid for

[gibbs]

Or a female if your in search of a male

It is a good way of distinguishing the species, especially with peacocks and haps. I know Vebas has done it as pacco explained to me and also Oli.

I still disagree with it's use for sales purposes however.

[rax]

Quote:However the hard cold reality is that most serious hobbiests only make up a small percentage of an aquarium businesses
At the end of the day the lights in the shop don't pay for themselves to be on,

________________________________________________________________________________
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I aggree and as a newbe to the scene i am looking for the best looking fish. Wiyhout years of knowledge, colour is the primary enticement.
Question: do shops use lights that enhance the colour of the fish and if so should they be obligated to tell customers?
Same issue....

[ice]

wow...what a thread!

Andrew- that mix you're talking about, is that the recipe from Ad Konings Malawi Cichlid book? i actually whipped up a very similar one myself (prawns, spirulina, cucumber, spinach etc) when i was keeping malawis and peacocks a few years ago and it worked an absolute treat! I fed it to my fish every second day and the colours it brought out was amazing- and i did notice that even the females looked about 50% better. I had a colony of O.Lithobates sulphur crested at the time too and all 4 of the females began to show a faint blue sheen on their gill plates which was really cool, and i have seen similar looking shots of females from the wild which i was really pleased about, so it does seem to affect their colours too as well as the males'.

I fed the prawn mix to my tangs as well, twice a week- i had gold occies and multies at the time and my multies' yellow fins became a lot more pronounced and the occies bred for the first time in 6 months (they were adults, but i'd never had any luck with that pair).

The only reason i stopped using the home made forumla was because i ran out of the 4kg id made and mum wouldnt let me use the blender to mix more prawns

So i guess what i'm saying is i used all natural ingredients that majorly affected my fish colours- all species. When i stopped using it, they dulled down a little- especialy the lithobates. the females went back to being all brown . What's actually in the pellets Az? Has it got many additives in it? Becuase if it doesnt, i'd be all for it- i've seen first hand the difference food can make to fish and how quickly it brings them into a more healthy state (hence the breeding).. and the only thing that would put me off using it is if there were heaps of things in there that werent specified- i.e.- colour enhancers, sp. 145 etc. So i guess it just depends.

What would be cool (to promote the difference) is the choose a popular fish that's often in stock and set up 2 tanks- one that are fed only the pellets and another type of food, and the others that are fed just the normal mix you mentioned before- that would be really interesting. And also give your customers an indication of what to expect. You'd probably sell more pellets

[gibbs]

I aggree and as a newbe to the scene i am looking for the best looking fish. Wiyhout years of knowledge, colour is the primary enticement.
Question: do shops use lights that enhance the colour of the fish and if so should they be obligated to tell customers?
Same issue....

The fish you buy that have been fed these foods will look great..... for a few weeks until the food has left it's system anyway.

I feel sorry for the neewbie's and potential hobbiest's buying fish these days, only for their fish to lose colour a couple of weeks after being bought and then losing interest in the fish and the hobby.

Im glad i had some great little "hobby" lfs in my local area when i got sucked in years ago.

[werdna]

My recipe came from a cichlid-forum link I think, but most homemade recipes are fairly similar in ingredients.
I am thinking of making up another batch to get the colours back and to try to breed some stubborn fish.

I'll take some before and after shots to show the difference.

[kamalau]

The fish you buy that have been fed these foods will look great..... for a few weeks until the food has left it's system anyway.

I feel sorry for the neewbie's and potential hobbiest's buying fish these days, only for their fish to lose colour a couple of weeks after being bought and then losing interest in the fish and the hobby.

Im glad i had some great little "hobby" lfs in my local area when i got sucked in years ago.

if the fish are colour fed in shops usually the shop will be selling the product and the staff should tell you about it or recomend it to you its called a " add on sale "
i dont see the problem with shops using it aslong as they tell the customer about it and dont deniy that they are using it on the store fish

[Kieran]

Before you buy any fish you should ask how long they've had it, if it's been eating, what is has been eating, what it's been kept with anyway. That is your responsibility as a fishkeeper. If the shop assistant doesn't know, I either make them find someone who does know, or take my business elsewhere.

If you do this you'll know what the fish is being fed anyway. If the shop lies to you I'm sure we all want to know about it.