28 replies to this topic

[EL]

Are Dragon Blood Peacocks hybrids? If not what is their scientific name.

Cheers

[Jezza]

yup, they are
this topic has come up on here several times before

[Keddy]

the link to the previous debate is
http://www.perthcich...h...opic&t=7509
try there

[EL]

From what I've read hybrid is a new species created from two drifferent species. Blood dragon peacock why are they considered a hybrid where as they were selectively bred to get the color but still a peacock therefore it is in line breeding.

[Keddy]

The PCS has determined they are hybrid......ask the committee members for further info

[madasa]

I am also in agreement with you both. A hybrid is when the male of one species mates with the female of another and offspring are created. This is not the case with dragon bloods which I consider to be more a colour morph through selected breeding.

[benckie]

I agree !

[Poncho]

I understand the difference between line breeding and hybridisation but what I don't understand is exactly how dragon bloods came to be. That is what varient(s) or specie(s) were used to breed them into existence?

I have heard a lot of opinions on if they are a hybrid or line bred mutation etc. but I haven't seen or heard any rationale for these opinions. I guess what I'm asking is how does the PCS, LFS or the hobbyist come to their conclusions or opinions without knowing this (to me) crucial information?

Does anybody know this information or are there other methods of determining if something is a hybrid other than knowing what was used to breed them?

Personally, I don't like the look of these fish but I don't like albino's either and they kind of remind me of this. I'm just curious to know the answers to the above questions so if anybody could enlighten me, it would be much appreciated.

[shaggy]

Was just about to ask the same question Poncho well put

[benckie]

8O

[hlokk]

As far as I know, dragon bloods are hybrids and not "line-bred". Aulonocara has several different species, and each species has heaps of variants. I dont know about you, but If I buy a Aulonocara stuartgranti, I want it to say be a ngara and not a ngara/usisya hybrid.

The german red fish are a good example of line breeding, where they actually used one species and selected the reddest to breed. However, with dragon bloods, it probably starte with albino of one type, then someone crossed it with a normal fish of another species/variant and kept mixing and matching to get something 'right'. Dragon bloods arent called Aulonocara stuartgranti "usisya" albino, because their a mishmash of various species, variants and albinos.

http://www.cichlid-f...no_peacocks.php

[Poncho]

Thanks for that info and link hlokk. I can understand the ambiguity surrounding these dragon bloods now.

Just to try and clear up a contradiction that has come up in this thread though:

Is the offspring derived from crossing varients considered to be hybridisation?

and

to those stating that they do not think DB"S are a hybrid - what are you basing this opinion on? that the breeders only used one species but different varients to create them? that the genus Aulonocara should in fact only have one species because they are all so similar? or any other reason.

And just a bit of a disclaimer type thing before this turns into a b*tchfest

I'm not criticising anyone for their opinion or what they have in there tanks. I am just curious to know where they are coming from. So no need to put up a post going:

"who cares as long as you are happy with the fish",

"this is old news, why do you people keep bringing this up?" (because I don't have an answer to my question yet)

or

" 8O "" :evil: ' and " :roll: "

[shaggy]

thanks for that hlokk and keep the questions coming poncho as I am curious as well

[Dave76]

I'll keep this short as we've had this discussion umpteen times

I think people are confusing genus with species.

There are roughly 20ish species in the Aulonocara genus

so as an example

Aulonocara baenschi x Aulonocara baenschi from unrelated bloodlines = 'normal' breeding
Aulonocara baenschi x Aulonocara baenschi from same family (brother / sister etc) = inbreeding
Aulonocara baenschi x Aulonocara baenschi from extended family (half brother / half sister etc) = line breeding
Aulonocara baenschi x Aulonocara gertrudae = hybrid

Good little reference
http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Inbreeding

From http://dictionary.re...m/browse/hybrid
hybrid - the offspring of two animals or plants of different breeds, varieties, species, or genera

Hope that helps clear things up a bit, or muddy the water even more....

Dave

[shaggy]

So the people who think these are a hybrid believe they originated from two different species but those who dont therefore think it is a 'colour morph' from selective breeding. So it is actually the origins of this fish that are in arguement?

[benckie]

I was under the impression they were of the same species so how could it be a hybrid line of peacock (right or wrong)?

I thought right or wrong they were colour morphs.

And in the wild dont the same species but different colour breed? Isnt that how we get all these different colour variations and different species of fish, arnt alot of different species all hybrids originaly, wasnt that how we got electric yellows and please dont start me on frontosa?

If that happens in the wild and different colours of the same species breed and we get colour morphs should we treat them as hybrids ?

As for inter-breeding dont you all do it !!!

As for breeding hybrids in tanks im not touching that subject with a 40 ft pole.

If you really think about it since us humans got onto cichlids haven't we slowly screwed them up like every thing else ? eg the planet even if our intentions are good ?

Cause you guys say its ok to breed brothers and sisters then sell them, others breed their brothers and sisters, and then sell them to the next person, then he breeds his mixed bag with them, arnt we slowly killing off the genetic stock of the fish ? and making money off it ? When you think about it we are all buying and selling mainly to each other.

I maybe wrong im not saying im right its just my thoughts and in imo. Its just my 2 cents and is probably not worth 2 cents.

Now ill sit back and wait or the abuse even though i dont want any i just wanted to express my opinion which i thought im allowed to do ?

[SynoAngel]

IMO this fish is a hybrid unless you can prove otherwise.

I've spent the last 30 minutes searching the net trying to find a yes or no answer, but all I can find is arguing.

If you do a search for the line bred "Eureka Red" you find alot more information on its origins.

Daniel

[benckie]

[quote="SynoAngel"]IMO this fish is a hybrid unless you can prove otherwise.



Can you prove 100 % It is a hybrid ???

[dazzabozza]

I doubt he would say "IMO" if he was 100% sure.

[benckie]

I KNOW

Daniel said imo they are hybrids unlees you can prove other wise.

Well im my opion they arnt hybrids unless you can prove 100 % other wise

So ill ask again can Daniel again can he prove they are 100 % hybrids ?