12 replies to this topic

[Shane_H]

hi all,

I'm at a bit of a loss at the moment. I'm a pretty experienced fish keeper and know my ammonia from my nitrates, my oxygen from my stagnant water and my pH logarithm scales. Yes I do water changes every week and check all the usual physiochemical parameters. But I can't work this one out.

I've had Africans (mainly Malawis with a handful of frontosa) before with no troubles and my current tank has had them in there for about 6 months now. The following keeps happening;

One by one (not several at a time), a fish will lose its colouring. It will then go off its food and look generally sad for a couple of weeks. It will then take refuge in a hiding spot, and finally will start showing other signs such as gasping. It will then be dead.

A week or so later, another fish will start to show these symptoms and go through the same cycle. Never more than one fish a week shows these signs then dies. Whilst this is happening, all other fish are happily eating and look great.

I can rule out ammonia, temperature, oxygen, nitrates, etc. any other ideas? Some kind of internal parasite perhaps? Any treatment I should try?

Thanks,
Shane.
Also, another odd observation... All of my catfish (synodontis multi x3 and pleccos x2) seem totally unaffected. They have been in the tank the entire time and show no signs of illness what so ever.

[shep]

Sounds like it could be something as simple as bullying.

[sandgroper]

Do you treat and age your water in a storage container ready for your next water change after each water change or do you just do it straight from the tap. It sounds like a water quality issue to me.

[tropheus]

I agree with shep. It's bullying


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[bigjohnnofish]

with no overlapping of deaths i would be thinking one fish at a time is singled out and picked on so much it stresses out and ultimately leads to its death...

 

something water quality/parameters would have more of a total effect on your tank...  starting with the weaker species first... 

[Buccal]

Sounds like bullying to me also,,, the tank could be overstocked, not by sheer over population but due to crammed territory.
Sometimes carefully setting out territories and lots of mini-quarters can solve these issues.
A experienced aquarist like yourself, me and rest of us,,,, when setting out a mixed specie communal display, we fill out all the strata's or levels of the aquarium for occupancy by fish types.
This complete setup will leave territories very tight.

Without over feeding,,, sometimes food increase can lower aggression.

Sometimes fish can die not from direct aggression, but just unable to take up a comfortable fitting residence maybe verging on aggression.

Small doses of whitecrane super G will color all fish up, and after they are all colored, they do settle also.

I know you said your up to scratch with maintaining water quality,,, but don't forget KH,,,, very important,,, it took me many many years to accept its importance which actually relates to lots of other factors.

Also,,, one frontosa group can vary greatly to another,,,, hostility wise.
Just keep persevering.

Edited by Buccal, 02 September 2015 - 02:12 AM.

[Shane_H]

Thanks guys. Not so sure it's bullying though. I've tried isolating the sick looking fish in a hospital tank previously but they still succumb to the symptoms.

I use Malawi salts and buffer so hardness should be ok. Unless it's too hard?

I don't really observe any bullying of the sick fish either. But will watch a little closer. I've lost large dominant males as well.

[BengaBoy]

could be bullying.

after lights out

got a moon light?

[Buccal]

Thanks guys. Not so sure it's bullying though. I've tried isolating the sick looking fish in a hospital tank previously but they still succumb to the symptoms.
I use Malawi salts and buffer so hardness should be ok. Unless it's too hard?
I don't really observe any bullying of the sick fish either. But will watch a little closer. I've lost large dominant males as well.

Dominant males losing rank can get stressed.
Remember that fish dying from stress isn't only physical agression,,, but mental stress lowers immune system which leaves fish open to gram negative bacterial infections which then furthers into secondary diseases which show as and are seperate diseases.
Lifelessness and color loss can be gram negative infection,,,, and also can be a result of direct physical bullying,,, things aren't always black and white.
Frontosas can be cunning to, and not see them bully others when they are.

[Morley Aquariums]

If it is not water, aggro or infection, then environmental factors must be the reason eg; what foods are you using?, often an incorrect diet or poor quality foods can lead to random losses. Another one is decomposing driftwood becoming toxic as areas of organic matter become exposed. Also the mistaken use of excessive salt (not lake salts, just plain salt) can lead to bloat related losses.

[Buccal]

There's a little stone that was unturned ^^^^^^

Just about run out of possibilities now !

[Shane_H]

Tanks guys. I was using sachem NLS pellets previously but have switched to a lesser known brand about a week ago to see if it makes a difference. No losses for about 5 days so will keep monitoring.

I do have a piece of drift wood in there but it's very well used (ie 5+ years of aquarium life).

Thanks for the tips.

[Morley Aquariums]

NLS is a good food & unlikely to cause issues unless used to excess. Re; wood, does not matter how old it is, i have just had a bit cause me losses in a tank at the shop & that has been in tanks for 15+ years so if any more issues worth looking into (obviously if other possibilities eliminated first). Hopefully all will be well from now.