52 replies to this topic

[jerlinjames]

As it says in the topic title, my question is, do you have to do regular water changes if the water parameters are in the right range.

 

I have a few discus in a planted 50g tank. with loads of floating plants.

 

Amonia and nitrites are 0ppm and nitrates around 10ppm.

 

I understand that high levels of nitrates can also be harmful but if it stays on the 10ppm range, do you still have to do water changes.

 

Is there any other factors I need to consider.

 

Reason I am asking this question is that I like having a brown tint in the water from the driftwood and after water changes I'm loosing them slightly.

 

 

 

[Androo]

What ph is your tank and what ph is your tap water?
And same question as kh

Sorry auto correct

[jerlinjames]

I should have mentioned, I am not monitoring 'kh' at the moment

 

Not sure what 'oh' is. if you meant to ask about 'gh' again Im not monitoring it

 

Ph is around 7.0

[werdna]

You are basically running as a small aquaponics system.

If your nitrates aren't building there shouldn't technically be any requirement to change the water.

 

A very well known cichlid breeder and collector once mentioned that he only does water changes when his fish tell him they need to be done.

So, in other words, if your fish are happy and healthy and nitrates are staying low, then you shouldn't need to do a water change.

 

If you like the change to get rid of tannins, then do a water change.

 

It wouldn't hurt to take the water into a fish shop and get tested to ensure your test kit isn't faulty though...

[jerlinjames]

It wouldn't hurt to take the water into a fish shop and get tested to ensure your test kit isn't faulty though...

 

Thats a good idea.

[Riggers]

The brown tinge is the tannins leeching from the wood, this colouration will slowly go over time. if you water is good I'd say leave it and just do regular top ups

Edited by Riggers, 16 October 2014 - 12:34 PM.

[Frontosaman]

In my opinion you can tell from your fish. If your plants start shooting off at a crazy rate, and your fish behaviour changes, then water change. But as long as your tank is stable then it's personal preference in my opinion.




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[Fox]

I have a question for you,

Would like to have a bath after several other people have had a bath in the same water, Even though the water tests correct?

In guessing your answer would be no

We keep fish in glass boxes, nothing like the place their originally from where the water gets 'changed' all the time.
All my tanks get 50% weekly regardless of tests.
When I kept and bred Discus I was changing 20% daily with aged water.
To get the tannins (I also like them) I was using either Indian almond leaves or Black water extract.
We should always do water changes, nobody likes to live in their own filth, well except my two young children! Trying to get them to clean their room is almost impossible

[Frontosaman]

Correct me if I am wrong but plants convert filth?

If the water parameters are in check then surely they are not living in there own filth

[jerlinjames]

Yea fair point there Aquatic dreams.

 

Although I would not be wanting to do daily water changes. Weekly sounds good

[Jules]

as good practice, I believe waster changes are essential, even if the tank is 100% stable and perfect. I believe it may replenish other minerals in the water and just provide clean (fresher) water again to your precious fishes. its part of the involvement of the hobby too I guess. and a weekly or fortnightly water change will ensure things stay generally more stable.

[MattyB]

Ok, water changes are essential, defently when it comes to discus, discus absorb minerals in the water, just like how we absorb Vitamin D from the sun ,regardless what the nitrates are reading water changers are essential to replenish minerals in the water. like the reason we cant use 100 percent RO water in fish tanks, y? because RO units take out all the minerals in the water, all the bad ones and good ones. (people that do 100 percent use mineral tablets etc)

 

your fish would be fine if you didn't do many water changes but this is when problems like stunted growth can come in which is something you do not want. you know on some forums how they boast about having discus the size of dinner plates (some are 12inches long on SimplyDiscus and measured by a ruler), there secret? 100 percent water changes daily for there whole life! this is due to the amazing amount of refreshing water the discus gets and the over feeding. this is why you don't see many discus even close to that size cause common, who wants to do daily water changes every day for the next 2 years just to get a fish big :s This is the main key on getting discus big, water changes water changes water changes. oviously its to the extreme this example but you can see how it relates to the topic. have one Discus in a 600L tank from baby to adult with a waterchange every say 2 months and what do you get, a very stunted discus that will never grow past 12cm.

 

Hope this little write up helps, any questions please ask

[jerlinjames]

Thanks for the info guys, as always good information on this forum.

 

Now I got to look into how I can automate the water changing process so I can do it more often.

[Westie]

I've read that discus secrete a growth inhibiting hormone too, which is why discus keepers do frequent water changes to remove this hormone from the water

[Fox]

Thanks for the info guys, as always good information on this forum.
 
Now I got to look into how I can automate the water changing process so I can do it more often.

  

There used to be a guy on these forums (Topline) PM him and ask how he set his up, I think from memory it was via his pool.
He was getting a full 6x2x2 water change daily on his Discus tank.
He's a really nice bloke to chat to and always happy to help. Brian is his name.

I've read that discus secrete a growth inhibiting hormone too, which is why discus keepers do frequent water changes to remove this hormone from the water

I was once told this as well Jason, and then a few years later I was also told that many other species of cichlids can do it also.
I haven't gone to look for research into it, so I don't know how true it is. I think I remember reading it from an article in TFH mag from Jack Wattley.

[Riggers]

I'm sure that the mono sebae does the same thing when in pairs, one will grow the other will stay smaller due to the release of hormones

[Kleinz]

I think it's generally agreed that fish grow faster with more water changes. This would indicate there are things in the water other than stuff in the nitrogen cycle; things which are not filtered or broken down at the same rate.

 

I'm with Az here. In a rather small glass box, the levels of hormones and other  things which we do not even test for can build to levels you would not find in a lake a few hundred kilometres long. 

 

With that in mind, I think frequent changes can only be good for your fish.

[Bombshocked]

if i was the OP i would be worrying about the things we can test... eg KH GH TDS CA MG

 

in a planted tank the plants/fish will use these up, so no you cant keep a tank and not do water changes and not add kh/gh buffers,

there will be evaporation, if you don't top it up with ro/di water you will be stacking your tds 

remember the KH/PH correlation  (when ur kh crashes your ph crashes) this will be inevitable in a planted tank without water changes,

 

in a tank without water changes even if the plant load can absorb the nitrate levels and keep them in check after a while they will have a CA deficiency and this will be a limiting factor in the growth rate of plants, even if its not the GH/CA as soon as you hit 0KH your plants will start melting back and there ability to uptake other nutrients will cease to exist as they are basically crippled,

 

of course if you add some buffers and top up with ro water it can be done, for a plant only tank but for fish i wouldn't do it unless you want some small/stunted fish

 

edit:if you want extra tannins you can add, Candian Peat Moss, IAL, Dried Bannana Leafs(purchased from aquotix) etc if you dont like them in your tank, you can soak them in the water change water whilst it ages 24-48hrs IAL will release alot

Edited by Bombshocked, 17 October 2014 - 03:02 AM.

[jerlinjames]

Thanks I will try and see what topline has done for automating waterchanges.

 

Got 2 olive drums yesterday which will go towards helping me with water changes. In the process of cleaning out the olive smell from it.

 

Next I think I have to save up for a RO unit.

[werdna]

You don't need an ro unit for a fresh water tank.
Save the money for something useful.

I'm happy to be considered the wrong one here, even if I have kept the equivalent of a 2000L planted tank for 5 years without doing a single water change, just top ups from tap water, and not seen any issues with stunted growth or melted plants.