41 replies to this topic

[Fish Antics]

I have been thinking about the issue of the price people sell their fish for. I realise that everyone is entitled to sell their fish for what ever they want, however I do think that it is having a negitive effect on our hobby.
IMO People sell their fish way to cheaply, which in turn makes it hard for the shops to sell theirs. I am not only talking about on the forums but also on sites like Gumtree. If a shop cannot compete with those selling privately on line then they will stop getting them in. With the number of the large chain stores also putting pressure on our local aquarium stores it wont be long before we only have the limited range that these chain stores offer.
For example if a fish such as a 3-4cm Electric yellow sells in the shop for $9 ea. A breeder has 25 of them and sells them on the forums for $3 ea, there is no room for competition of markups. As the reasons are limited as to why the average person would buy a $9 fish aposed to a $3 one offered. (I understand that those hobbyests will look for quality and varieties of bloodlines). That same person may try to sell some to the local shop also offering them at $3 ea. Why would the shop buy them from you for $3 when you are selling them privately at $3. You have set the retail value of your fish at $3ea.
I believe that it would be far better in the long run to have reasonable prices for selling fish. to take the same example
The 3-4cm Electric yellow that retails in the shops for $9,
If I sell them privately I should sell them at 2/3 the retail price, $6ea. I can offer them cheaper as I do not have the large overheads that a retail shop has, yet leaves enough room to allow me to sell to the shops for a wholesale style price.
If I take them to the shop who will take a large number if not all then 1/3 retail price of $3ea would be reasonable.
This gives the shop room to add mark up and yet not be so disadvantaged by the private seller. The seller is also better off as he sells all his fish in one hit and with no messing around.

I realise that people will argue that competition will drive the price down, however what it seems to do is stop shops stocking certain fish that they can not compete with. They are then only available from breeders, and once a fish is no longer popular there is a possibility it will be lost to the state or country.


I would be interested in seeing what others think.

Tony

[25GTT]

I have only had my aquarium for a little while but have bought from the local fish store. Whilst i was a member on here and saw some good deals on fish etc, i always found it more "safer" to by from a store, especially being a begginer they would have lots of stuff there to help out with as well.

If i can use a quick example, the store (which i will keep unnamed) sold me a clown loach, the next day i could see what appeared to be sandy spots over it (aka white spot) i told the fish store i they said to come down and bring the fish with me. Upon going to the store they looked at it and confirmed white spot and gave me some free aquarium salt as well as a free bottle of white spot treatment.
I just dont think that i would have gotten the same service from a local private seller.
Now however being a bit more experienced i am looking to go to some private sellers to start purchasing fish but my main purchases will always stick with the local fish shop.

[fourdapostle]

I understand on your common fish, and I understand about overheads, worked retail for well, too long. Anyway, I agree in principle with comments especially on popular aquarium fish, however as I keep discus, I know all the comments, pricing is all over the place. My argument in retail is this; I would prefer to make a sale and make one dollar than to let people walk out the door with nothing. It cost to much in advertising to get them in the door to let them walk out with nothing.If you can sell the fish there is opportunity for a lot of other add ons as you know, but there seems to be a huge focus on selling a fish...and thats it.
There are to many order takers in retail these days not just in aquarium shops and service is going bye byes...build the sales around the fish, the fish are the draw cards, add ons...
Retail is hard, and it anit getting any easier, thats why we have to use every opportunity to sell, fish yes but the other bits and peices also. If they buy fish, and are greatful for the service they will be back.
The I'll be backs, never do if they think they are being ripped off, and that is not speaking of any retailer in general, but of all retailers.They inevitabley find fish cheaper elsewhere.
Work the people you have ok, work...

[choombies]

If I could sell my fish for more I would......but when I run out of tank space them frys have to go somewhere!!
I have given a lot of fish away but normally to not so well off people who probably wouldnt spend a cent in the LFS anyway.
Possibly by selling fish cheap people are giving others opportunities to be able to experience fish keeping which would otherwise not be possible.
If I had not been able to buy so many cheap fish and aquariums and had to pay full LFS price for everything I can assure you my collection would be nothing what it is today.
Probably wouldnt be as interested either...

[Westie]

I definitely agree with what you have said here Tony, but there are certain considerations to take in in regards to this discussion. Yes privately selling fish can have a negative impact on the LFS, but there are instances where someone needs to clear fish fast (tank sizing constraints, trying new fish, unexpected fry, etc. etc.), and lowering the price privately is a good way to move things faster. On the other side of the discussion, I sometimes see people wanting way too much for their fish when selling them privately too. In saying that, if I was to buy electric yellows (for example), I would go to my LFS and speak to an experienced staff member about the fish I’m interested in, and purchase it from them first. If later on, I wanted to get more and they were cheap on the forum, then sure I’d buy them privately. Gumtree I don’t think I would trust, as I don’t know the person I’m buying the fish from. I must say that the more help and advice I get from a LFS, the more $$$ I’m willing to spend there.

I used to work in retail, and can appreciate the cost involved in things like rent, staff wages, and other costs. Also, buying aquarium extras like water conditioner, salts, nutrition, and other fish stuff I would buy from a LFS. There is always the extra stuff that a LFS sells that not many people would buy online or privately. Maybe I’m going a bit off topic here since Tony you’re talking about private sale of fish de-valuing a fish price in a retail store. Yes it’s a problem, but there is always a place for the LFS selling fish, as well as all things fish related. I do hope that the retail sector starts to pick up, because a lot of businesses are doing it tough.

I was reading on another fish forum about stores in QLD closing down all over the place. I think that the stores that will struggle to sell fish the most will be the “all-in-one” pet franchise stores, not stores like the sponsors that support this club. I was speaking to one of the sponsors recently, and he said in retail “you either get big, or you get a niche” which I think is very true. I think that most LFS fit into that category, because selling fish to me is a niche. You can’t go in to one of those franchise pet stores and say “hi, I want to look at some rare cichlids and get this other specialised stuff for my tank”. Don’t mean to beat on the franchise stores; I just think they are the only ones that should worry about fish prices going down due to private sales.
Maybe I’m wrong, this is just my opinion, and everyone is different when it comes to spending money and seeing value in what they spend money on. There is always some people out there that are just unreasonable in regards to what they think are good value, but hey, you can’t please everyone.

My 2 cents,
Jason

[scottyhooton]

I have been charging more for my fish than I did a year ago ....... I find buyers are scared off when things are tooo cheap

[Bickley]

Don't worry Scotty you won't scare me mate you can drop the price lol

I agree with choombies I understand the shops have overheads and can't compete with a private breeder but I prob wouldn't have been able to get into the hobby as much as I have If I was paying shop prices for everything. I wouldn't have been able to afford it as an apprentice and prob would of lost interest aswell. I still go to the shops I buy 99% of my equipment/hardware from the shops, majority of my food and even fish if there not ridiculously priced. When it comes to trading in fish I give them to the shops half if not less then half the price I've been selling them for privately simply because they take bulk and have to get a mark up out of them

[Mr_docfish]

This has been a growing issue for the last few years.

I see fish on offer on various forums, and after a few weeks, they are offered to me for the same price (less a few of the best fish in the batch which have been previously sold)

I feel rude if I was to offer them half of the forum price. But I am buying 20+ fish in one hit, and I have to resell them.

There are a few member now that are offering me their fish before offering them on the forums..... so things are changing, slowly.

LFS still have people that dont buy from the forums or gumtree to sell to - so forum prices dont really affect us that much (only on some rare or new species) - and if we cant make money on a fish, we just wont stock them - we are after all, a business, not a zoo.... and there are a number of breeders we deal with that are not involved with forums or gumtree, so we can get the fish we want bred for us at previously agreed prices we feel are fair for buyer and breeder alike.


But basically, keep in mind, if you dont want to pay too much for your fish, but want top dollar when you sell them, think about the price you sell your fish for......

[richardc4873]

In my experience I have only ever sold my fish to LFS. In every occasion and in every shop that I have dealt with the sale has been reached with both parties feeling satisfied with the price. I sell my fish to LFS for the reason that I want them to prosper. It is always such a good feeling to go into a well run shop and find some new or not so common species that the shop has been able to source. I don't wan to lose that any time soon. All I can say is well done to the sponsors who are hobbyists at heart!

[spite333]

all i need to say is WA ppl are to tight,

[bigjohnnofish]

all i need to say is WA ppl are to tight,

so true... i send most of my fish over east... especially anything with a price tag of $50 or higher for fry!!!....

back to the issue at heart... no easy solution... but i heard a rumour of a hit squad being formed to terminate under priced sellers.... so if thats you, you better have another think about what your selling and at what price....

an issue i find is you decide to unload a tank of fry... offer them to lfs at good fair prices... and for one reason or another they dont take them - so what do you do... unload them cheap on the forum... which in turn kills the price of the fish....

lets face it if all fish are devalued - lots of things will happen... lfs wont be able to make a profit and hence close.... a lot of beeders just wont breed fish anymore leading to the loss of many species in australia... and believe it or not a lot of people wont buy fish.... it really means disaster for the whole industry/hobby....

so have a good think about what your selling/pricing...

[krellious]

Each time i go to a LFS they are not interested in the fish i have. yet a week later they have more stock of the same fish but smaller then the ones i had... WTF.

I try to breed some less common fish here on the east coast and do have troubles selling fry to shops. I am one of the few people who don't breed yellows and shops jsut are not interested. I cant win

[spite333]

so have a good think about what your selling/pricing...

Johnno well put mate i sick of that lil group of ppl like you said dropping there prices of coruse its great for them but not for us, i know who that lil ring of ppl is and you guys should really start think about the hobby and not what $1000 bet your going to put on TAB

[fishking123]

so true... i send most of my fish over east... especially anything with a price tag of $50 or higher for fry!!!....

back to the issue at heart... no easy solution... but i heard a rumour of a hit squad being formed to terminate under priced sellers.... so if thats you, you better have another think about what your selling and at what price....

an issue i find is you decide to unload a tank of fry... offer them to lfs at good fair prices... and for one reason or another they dont take them - so what do you do... unload them cheap on the forum... which in turn kills the price of the fish....

lets face it if all fish are devalued - lots of things will happen... lfs wont be able to make a profit and hence close.... a lot of beeders just wont breed fish anymore leading to the loss of many species in australia... and believe it or not a lot of people wont buy fish.... it really means disaster for the whole industry/hobby....

so have a good think about what your selling/pricing...

hay you said over east you mean NSW?

[STEVEGREEN]

i think its purely supply and demand , all my fish go east as their are more peeps over their want them

cheers
Steve Green

[Cawdor]

Firstly, I don't breed for profit - I do it because I enjoy watching fish grow up from tiny fry to colourful adults. When I have batches of juvies that I cannot house anymore, I pick some out to keep for myself and the rest I will offer to the local shops first. If they don't want them or can't take them, I will try and bulk sell them privately. But in order to do that I have to give people a discount, otherwise I can't move them on and I don't want to sell 1 or 2 fish at a time, I want to sell 20+ at a time.

I also give away fish to people who show genuine interest and who I feel are not just in it for a resale.

Another thing is that certain species go through cycles of interest/availability. Some time ago I could sell a 4cm juvie for $10 easily, now I am lucky to sell them for $4 retail because they are everywhere.

So really my prices for private sales are determined by how much I can get considering these circumstances and how urgently I need to move them on. If I have a small tank chockers with 4-5cm juvies and the shops won't take them, I can't afford to charge a higher price most of the times because it means they won't sell as quickly because they are sold cheaply by everyone else, even if mine are visibly better quality. Most people don't care about that and just look at the price.

[bigjohnnofish]

hay you said over east you mean NSW?

sydney , melbourne ,canberra , tasmania and queensland..... occasionally adelaide.....

[bigjohnnofish]

Firstly, I don't breed for profit - I do it because I enjoy watching fish grow up from tiny fry to colourful adults.

i have the best job/hobby in the world..... i breed a lot of species purely for sales/profit... and some species because no-one else has been able to breed them! like the challenge... and the experience of growing up fry also... to pick out the best fry and breed again.... line breeding appeals to me to get the best looking fish... and ultimately better looking/quality fish to the customer....

[tywonreef]

I hope no one is bagging our shop as I know for a fact our prices havent changed.We still do the 5 for 4 deal on All Cichlids,Loaches and Catfish.If our prices have fluctuated its only cause the wholesalers have marked up more themselves.Also I know we will try to match any shop out there and if we cant we are happy to tell the customer Quote: Shop around.Check out our opposition. We try to help out our fellow INDEPENDENT fish shops but not the big chains like well I wont say who they are.If you think we are to steep,tell us.We can only work on that.Happy shopping fish people.Thats my 2 cents.LOL




Troy Morley Aquariums

[Cam85]

i find most of the chain stores are generally cheaper than the specialist stores but will always buy from the specialist stores as i find the fish in alot better in health and the people in the stores know a lot more. A couple of weeks ago i was looking for a female convict to breed and i went to one of the chain stores and couldnt find one but then went to Morley Aquariums and found a gorgeous female for my males for a very reasonable price. So a big thank you to Morley Aquariums for this lovely fish and the fry i have since gotten from her.