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Need Some Advice About Marine


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#1 emille

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 01:46 PM

i am considering getting a marine aquarium.  can anybody give me a bit of guidance, does one get 'marine' and 'tropical' tanks, or can any tank be used for marine setup, or do you reckon it must have a sump.  also are the nano tanks very difficult to master as opposed to a larger marine tank.  i would like to do it the most economic way



#2 malawiman85

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 07:09 PM

Economic = nano!

Go a proper marine nano tank they are quite expensive but they are pretty good little setups and hey thats marine for you $,$ and more $.

If you wanna go full size you definitely want a sump, as much live rock as you can get your hands on, high levels of filter turnover, a protein skimmer, strong currents with wave makers, quality lights based on the minimum requirements of what ever you want to grow, heater, maybe a chiller if you cant keep the temp stable during summer crushed coral substraight and a whole lot of patience.  

As an exercise go and price the above items suitable for a tank size of your choice. That will at least give you an idea of your setup cost... You can do it cheaper second hand, maybe have a look on gumtree, there are often full marine setups for sale, some pretty cheap, obviously newbs realising how bloody demanding marine can be without top notch running gear and a fair bit of spare time. 

Remember if you do go second hand that a setup advertised as a "complete setup" for a decent price is very rarely a complete setup, its usually a bunch of cheap crap that isnt really adequate. 

Do lots of research before you do anything. Read everything you can get your hands on, then read it all again. Thats my advice.

Check out MASA if you havent already... Great resource.

http://www.masa.asn.au/masa/ 

 

Good luck  :)



#3 Mattehx

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 07:54 PM

I've heard that nano tanks aren't particularly suitable for beginners. Mainly because with the smaller volume of water, small changes can be more devastating and tank parameters are harder to maintain.



#4 malawiman85

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 08:03 PM

Yeah Ive heard that to but its all the same principals, same tests, etc you just have to be on the ball and be like clockwork with your maintenance.  



#5 emille

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 09:19 PM

thanks malawiman 85.  

 

Ive mastered a pond with koi for 3 years, mastered a 4ft x 2 x 2 with 2 oscars for a year and I am thinking marine...

 

how difficult is it?

 

frontykwal has a pretty good setup below, but how much would that be, are we talking $1500?

 

basically all i want is two clown fish, a goby and perhaps a puffer fish and a few nice corals. some of the nano tanks available that i have seen are $1400!  or alternatively sea horses would be good...  you could get a decent tropical tank for that price   :mellow: i don't want to unrealistic but i was hoping a can get a nano secondhand with all i need for about $500?  and then i read about lights only costing sometimes $1000. and then on gumtree theres tanks available for $4000?  What the?

 

i probably need to do more and more research....


Edited by emille, 18 April 2014 - 09:25 PM.


#6 malawiman85

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Posted 19 April 2014 - 07:32 AM

Most marine nanos are pretty much complete setups. I dunno what they go for second hand.
id be inclined to buy an underperforming 3 footer cheapish then go and spend some money on it getting it up to scratch.
I think BigPete had a nano for sale on here not to long ago... maybe look back through classifieds and have a look at the price he had on his.

Did it for you. $300.
http://www.perthcich...c=57235&hl=nano

Edited by malawiman85, 19 April 2014 - 07:35 AM.


#7 Redevilz

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Posted 19 April 2014 - 10:01 PM

Great! More people getting into marine, that's good to hear as I thoroughly enjoyed keeping marine aquariums. I hope you have a great experience with keeping saltwater tanks too! They are very interesting and the amount of variations in coral and the diversity of marine life you can keep in a saltwater aquarium is amazing.

If my response does not answer all of your questions then let me know and I can try to help you as best I can with anything you need to know.

If you have kept cichlids there is no reason whatsoever why you would not be able to successfully keep and maintain a marine aquarium. They are really not as difficult as some people say they are. As long as you keep up regular water changes and do not overstock your tank they are just as easy as a freshwater tank to keep! To ensure you do not have dead fish or ammonia problems, I would have no fish in the tank for 2 months, add fish slowly and same with corals.

The first and one of the most important ways to ensure your marine tank is successful is by buying quality live rock and cycling your tank. The recommended period for cycling your aquarium is 1-2 months. The duration of the cycle is based on the size of the aquarium. The larger the tank the longer the cycling period should be.

With sumps, they are beneficial to have as you can store your equipment within them, making sure that your tank is attractive to look at. The best thing about sumps though is that they add water to your system, making the water parameters stabler and also you can add more stock to your tank.

Some of the easier corals to keep include Xenia, Hammer coral, torch coral, scolymia and toadstools.

The larger your aquarium the easier it will be to keep. The smaller, the cheaper but they are more difficult to keep because in small tanks temperature can fluctuate rapidly and conditions can change quicker than larger tanks because of the small quantity of water. The only problem with large marine tanks is that they are very expensive!!

I began with a 34 litre all in one ocean free brand unit. These tanks are great for beginners because they come with all the equipment you need for a low price! Although being a small tank I had problems with algae.

Another problem with small tanks is that the water evaporates quicker than a large tank. This can cause problems with the salinity levels because when the water evaporates there becomes less water in the tank. (Because some water evaporated). However, this helps algae grow because salt does not evaporate so when there is less water in the tank due to evaporation there is still the same ammount of salt, making the salinity levels higher. Algae thrives in High salinity levels.

Ideally, you want a balance in between a cheap little tank and a an easy to keep, large but expensive aquarium. Tanks that are around 200l are great for beginners.

In a marine tank there are more parameters that you must be careful of and keep at a certain level. In a marine tank you need to measure pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, phosphate and if you are keeping SPS corals (short polyp stony corals) then you need to test calcium and kH.

What the parameters should be:

pH: 8.0-8.4
Phosphate: 0
Ammonia 0-0.25
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0-10
Calcium: 400
kH: 8

A great way to test these is by purchasing the API saltwater master test kit.

Lighting: The intensity and amount of Lighting is dependent on the type of corals you would like to keep. LPS and Soft corals require low-medium light. SPS corals are more difficult to keep, these require strong flow, high calcium and very bright lighting.

Sorry for the lengthy reply...

Cheers

Edited by Redevilz, 19 April 2014 - 10:24 PM.


#8 emille

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 12:22 PM

hi redevilz

 

thanks for your reply, i really appreciate the response and the very useful information. I am very very green with this and my amount of knowledge is dangerous  :blink:

 

i have read each sentence a few times and is drinking up all the new found knowledge...

 

however i bought a tank for the oscars 4 x 2 x 2 and now a year later i feel sorry i did not wait a while longer, and rather buy a bigger tank.  now i already feel i should upgrade.  to some extent i don't want to make the same mistake with the marine setup.  

 

I am really inspired by the fact that you say its not that difficult, just a few more things to remember/follow and it looks like particularly a slow start is essential.  I would definitely then put the life rock, keep it for 2 months, then perhaps add one coral/fish every month after that?!

 

I went to Aquatix yesterday and actually saw the ocean free 34 litre there, but they look incredibly small.  its amazing you made it work.  such a small tank would really make me nervous... something i was considering is to find a way of adding a sump or external filter to a small one like that, don't know if this is even possible, but that would increase stability a bit?.  on the other hand i though of thought to go for something between 50 and 100 litre (the 200 you mention would be too costly).   craig is listing a beauty at the moment on this forum - but its $450 which is although probably a good price, a bit much for me at the moment.  perhaps i should just keep on researching and building my knowledge base (and save).  I suspect a tank like this would probably be $1200 new?

 

excuse my ignorance, but is a sump something that could be installed to an existing tank (hole drilled) or do you have to buy a tank and sump at the same time? Also does a sump require an actual 'hole' in the 'mother' tank or can it be done with a 'pipe' as with external filter hoses?

 

i would keep the simpler corals - really love the torch coral.  lights seem to be one of the most expensive aspects with marine tanks....

 

thanks for your advice, really appreciate it and i am sure this conversation will continue as my journey goes on


Edited by emille, 20 April 2014 - 12:40 PM.


#9 ant86

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 02:20 PM

Bigger is easier is all l can say...

Upgrade your oscars to a bigger tank and set your 4ft as your marine.

Edited by ant86, 20 April 2014 - 02:22 PM.


#10 malawiman85

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 02:36 PM

Hey,

 

I had a marine tank a few years ago with a pretty interesting filter that got mixed reviews. I thought it was pretty nifty and worked a treat. Cant remember what the make/model was (maybe someone can help me out). Might be a worthwhile cheap option for a slightly bigger tank. Doesnt have the advantage of extra water volume like a sump but otherwise was pretty cool!

 

257up_zps13fb1ce0.jpg



#11 malawiman85

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 02:54 PM

Also, just saw this cool little tank in classifieds.

http://www.perthcich...topic=57770&hl=



#12 Redevilz

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 09:00 PM

Here's a link to my tank journal:

http://www.perthcich...showtopic=54528

The whole tank, including ALL the equipment, rock, sand, fish, corals and rock etc only cost be about 400 all up! It had no sump.

#13 Redevilz

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 09:06 PM

Sumps can easily be installed to an existing tank, just as long as it is empty.

Another thing to remember about sumps is that all the water above he entrance pipe to the sump will drain into the sump when the power goes out. So make sure the pipe (either drilled or clipped/siliconed on) is high up in the tank... OR the sump is large and has room for the water that will drain down from the main tank...

#14 emille

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 10:01 PM

Here's a link to my tank journal:

http://www.perthcich...showtopic=54528

The whole tank, including ALL the equipment, rock, sand, fish, corals and rock etc only cost be about 400 all up! It had no sump.

i read your journal the other day, didn't realise it was you!  you're a genius  :(


Sumps can easily be installed to an existing tank, just as long as it is empty.

Another thing to remember about sumps is that all the water above he entrance pipe to the sump will drain into the sump when the power goes out. So make sure the pipe (either drilled or clipped/siliconed on) is high up in the tank... OR the sump is large and has room for the water that will drain down from the main tank...

thats real good advice thanks, never knew that.  can sumps be connected by just a pipe/hose such as with external filters (i.e pipe from main tank to sump and another from sump to main tank?)



#15 Redevilz

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 10:41 PM

Thanks mate!

Yeah they can be attached that way although it's harder to get the water down to the tank via a pipe which is bent to hand over the side of the tank as supposed to through a hole in the back of the aquarium and it can come straight down the pipe.

Another option. (Although this is recommended for larger tanks) is to drill holes in the bottom and have pipes that go from the sump, through the bottom of the tank and the top of the pipe is near the water's surface in the main tank so there isn't much water above the pipe to drain into the sump in case of a power outage.

The last thing you want is the pipes that bring water IN to the sump being at the bottom of your main tank, your sump being small and full. Then when the power goes off the pump that pushes water back into the tank stops working. So you have water coming into a full sump but none back out into the main tank. Because of the pipes being low in the main tank, all the water above drains into the full sump and then all your main tanks water goes all over the floor and the fish are in an empty main tank.

Edited by Redevilz, 20 April 2014 - 10:43 PM.


#16 emille

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 03:30 PM

Hi. So I saw a small tank on gumtree last night and bought it today. I want to convert this to marine. Its 40x40x40 cm with 64 litre capacity. I want to add sump and all the other stuff but do it slowly bit by bit

Btw how do I add photo

#17 Redevilz

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 05:44 PM

Are you on a computer or portable device?

#18 emille

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 08:15 PM

Hi. I alternate between the 2
Ok I managed to upload under photo gallery

#19 shane78

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 08:20 AM

I have a 30l nano which is my first ever marine setup, have had it running for about 3 or 4 months with a blue green chromis, some blennys, a snail and a starfish, as long as u keep up with the weekly water changes and keep an eye on things you should be fine, but saying that I now want to upgrade to bigger tank anyway. Patience is the key!



#20 emille

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 08:55 AM

Hi Shane78

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

What I am a bit confused about is what equipment is required (crucial) and what equipment is not so crucial.

 

What I am thinking are (i) lights, (ii) protein skimmer (iii) wavemaker as essentials, but not sure about this.

 

Lights seem to be very expensive.  Can you suggest lights for my aquarium, I would prefer the clip on ones in order to keep the 'minimalist' look.

 

With a protein skimmer some people say its not necessary, but it seems quite crucial to me?

 

Also with a wavemaker, I assume the smallest one would be sufficient?

 

I am kind of approaching this thing as a long term (6 month) projects as I have lots to learn and limited finances...

 

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