86 replies to this topic

[Buccal]

The ones in Malaga owned by les are dead now I think.
The worst condition I've seen ray pups in.
That's shop life for pups I guess.
I guess if kept in a display and has personal attention by the store owner then they have a chance.
Less than a year ago I spoke to the authorities when they blacklisted the discus ray being in the same Potamotrygon family.
They research the whole family and select the species to be blacklisted.
They are are aware of many moto in oz and they know they have been here a long time and in no way posed any outcome of threats yet.
Authorities have no intention of blacklisting moto.
If moto was going to be deemed noxious it would have been in conjunction with the discus is what they told me.
Sorry about my wording, it was rushed.

Edited by Buccal, 24 October 2012 - 03:58 PM.

[Mattymak]

willis

[Buccal]

Awesome, everyone is so lucky to have access to these little affordable treats.
People are very lucky to have you giving them the opportunity to own a ray at a very affordable price.
Usually people that can afford a big enough tank don't have to look for bargains in the whole scheme of things.

[Buccal]

Won't be to long till triple spot moto hits the Perth scene for not much more than double the price of old style moto that is on the present scene.

[Poncho]

I guess the point of Andrew's post was that you were questioning if I'd ever seen a ray in an lfs. Buccal actually stated shops won't take rays (adults or pups not defined). Andrew provided examples of three shops having rays within a few hours. So the point being that you don't really know everything about what rays are out there and where exactly they are. Helps people understand how much faith they should put in statements like "shops won't accept adult rays". I mean, how can you guys possibly know that unless you own every lfs in Perth?

I'd really like to know if you have an intimate understanding of the hobby or just pulling crap out of the air. You're slowly convincing me that it's the latter because of grandiose statements that you use to form your opinions like "ray keepers won't move rays on because they are awesome". I mean c'mon!!! By that rationale, malawis get moved on because they are crap. I challenge you to find one example of someone who bought any species of malawi fish that they personally thought was crap (apart from a rescue).

Everyone thinks their fish is awesome but minds change - ray keepers are no exception.

Anyway, if we can get passed the whole supply/demand arguments here - can we get some consensus from those thinking they are in the know about stingrays about just what is a suitable tanks size for adults. Pups become adults after all and they gots to go somewhere.

[Buccal]

your market will be gone soon,the rays are coming from everywhere

I don't have any ray market in Perth. Old style moto is already gone, it's people just finding out about rays now don't know what is and what's not.
Pcs carries about 4-5 potential buyers searching for a bargain, I'd hardly call that a market.
I can't sell 90% of my rays on pcs as werdna has made it clear no Hybrids.
Hybrids have infinite patern outcomes and price doesn't drop as much due to originality and they sell very well over east.
I ship in breathable bags.
I have already been contacted by a few people from pcs (surprisingly not after my hybrids) but after the triple spots at much more expense than your prices.
I'm sure that some people here will much prefer to buy peckoltias pups with bright glowing dots for a little more money.
Not all people chase the dollar, but rather quality.
I'm sure Dave your pups are quality if said so.
I believe if prices are freely expressed, then so should pictures.
When quality is talked about and people can't see, it becomes abstract with people guessing.
That's why Bowdy so kindly posted the pics of my triple spot so people can see and not wonder and debate.
But I have to say Dave, you making the reality of someone owning a ray that could not otherwise afford one is a good thing for those people and creates more of us rays owners.
Could even say a stepping block.
I just hope that the odd person buying because of its price doesn't go against the rays requirements due to the grab a bargain effect.

what ever you bring to the plate i will get them and eat them with abit of lemon and salt

Hah hah that's funny, I think they best be purged with a saline solution for best results.
They are farmed to be eaten in parts of the world.

[Buccal]

I guess the point of Andrew's post was that you were questioning if I'd ever seen a ray in an lfs. Buccal actually stated shops won't take rays (adults or pups not defined). Andrew provided examples of three shops having rays within a few hours. So the point being that you don't really know everything about what rays are out there and where exactly they are. Helps people understand how much faith they should put in statements like "shops won't accept adult rays". I mean, how can you guys possibly know that unless you own every lfs in Perth?

I'd really like to know if you have an intimate understanding of the hobby or just pulling crap out of the air. You're slowly convincing me that it's the latter because of grandiose statements that you use to form your opinions like "ray keepers won't move rays on because they are awesome". I mean c'mon!!! By that rationale, malawis get moved on because they are crap. I challenge you to find one example of someone who bought any species of malawi fish that they personally thought was crap (apart from a rescue).

Everyone thinks their fish is awesome but minds change - ray keepers are no exception.

Anyway, if we can get passed the whole supply/demand arguments here - can we get some consensus from those thinking they are in the know about stingrays about just what is a suitable tanks size for adults. Pups become adults after all and they gots to go somewhere.

This is why I say ( I don't THINK they will take rays)
Yes these rays were found in shops.
But my question, were they intentionally obtained for a sellable profit ?
Did they have price tags ?
I don't claim to know everything.
It seems my strong educated guess work gets a little opposed to, maybe entertainment for some ?
Buts ok, I've been edited by Werdna enough times.
I think I'm learning what's exceptable, the entertainment is about that edge I guess

[Bowdy]

So on selling is a hobby dave ??

[fishking123]

maby dave is HELPING outher people!



i am after a ray but not sure on type and price...
i know some one that has 1 in a 6x3x2 3ft wide, i think 2ft-3ft+ is ok..but i dont know much on rays
im going to gt a 7x3x3 for a ray in my next place

Edited by fishking123, 24 October 2012 - 05:08 PM.

[Poncho]

Anyway, before the bowdy and fishlips show ruins any constructive discussion.

What is the size vessel you need to house fully grown motoros properly?
Then, what percentage of people that have rays currently are ready for this and prepared to do what's necessary?

I'm genuinely interested in stingray advocates honest views on this. The market is or will be flooded and the potential for all ray keepers and to an extent fishkeepers to look bad shouldn't be ignored.

I'm looking at the trends that I've seen in Emperor cichlids, Datnoids, TSN, lungfish, arowana and all the other fad tankbusters that have come through here as the best predictor for what will happen with all these rays currently, and it's depressing.

[werdna]

I can't sell 90% of my rays on pcs as werdna has made it clear no Hybrids.

Its not my rule, it is part of the t&c's

How many people have noticed one of the tests for the noxious list is how easy they hybridise?
Doesn't help the chances of rays staying when someone keeps spouting off on how great the hybrid versions are on public forums.

The purchase price or a ray is a non issue, I had a $2000 car once, I still used premium fuel in it.
Stating food costs as a reason for why rays should remain expensive is not related to this discussion and a non issue.

Please stick to facts or I am going to delete everything even semi off topic

[Buccal]

This is my hobbie buccal and i will help other hobbist out,it seems to me this is more then a hobbie to you

Yes David, I'm very money orientated, and the business side of things is so much stronger in me than it is in most others. BUT, this plays no part in my love and passion for all this because the strength of my loving passion for fish is equal to the money side of things.
But personally I like to see the long lasting value and the species remain of all fish and rays.
Not just exhausted and used up as quick as possible then get onto the next specie.
The trick to retaining a varietie of species in this hobby for all types of fish is simple.
A little bit of this and a little bit of that, and spread it out.
If something is popular, then taking advantage of that poor living thing and treating it as a dollar sign and flooding it out while it's hot is how to bring it to a end. This cannot be debated, it's just how it is.
I breed so many varieties of fish it's not funny.
Some fish sell a lot better than others. But I don't concentrate on those and pump heaps out.
Small amounts released keeps them in demand and people talk about what they want that's non common which stems onto someone else catching on wanting the same thing.
It's the chase and desire is what gets more people on board and keeps the demand up.
Flood it, then it stops, every one at the time has what they want and the dream dies.
Because of my passion I don't like seeing species disappear and it's this balance act of money value and demand thing is what keeps a species present in oz and continually selling.
On a larger note, fish go in cycles, what becomes unpopular will surely become popular again.
It just comes down to if the species continue to exist in oz when their turn comes back around.
So you can see its not just a clear cut thing.
Are you money driven ?
Are you passion driven ?
They both work hand in hand for the existence for a species existing in oz today and still being here in 5-8 years time.
Popular bread and butters being the ones that sell to all walks of life in the hobby will always remain for obvious reasons.

[Tarpon]

Another potentially stupid question, how dangerous are the barbs, what is the risk of damage, and can the barbs be humanely and permanently removed

[Buccal]

im all for banning hybrids from this forum i think its discussting that we are still talking about this.

Hybrids have not been talked about anywhere on this thread David, why you say this. ?