Just had a serious member come to my house yesterday and get advice on building a monster wood, fibreglassed pen to start keeping rays.
There are at a low percentage people that are willing to do what is necessary for correct ray keeping.
This is why the ray numbers on offer must stay at a low percentage to suit demand.
Ship hundreds here, and flood the market here, with cheap prices, is where the problem would be if it were to become a problem.
Why is it that the people doing the wrong thing always spoils it for people doing the right thing ?
PCS & Stuart M. Grant - Cichlid Preservation Fund - Details here
Minimum Tank Width For Rays
Started by Tarpon, Oct 23 2012 09:53 AM
86 replies to this topic
#82
Jules
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- Forum Member Joined: 07-July 09
- Location:Treeby
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Location: Treeby
Posted 29 October 2012 - 08:06 AM
As I said, for 250 a pup, ill buy another pair?? zach wants ten?? there many ppl in classifieds still looking. There is only a very few rays kept here in Perth.
Mine are in a 6x2x2 which is too small already and there only 20-25cm disc size, however plans of some form of tub / indoor pond in my new house are in motion (get the keys next week so going to measure something up. Along the lines of 8x4x18" for my pair I think.
Money motivation and no understanding or passion......... Not having a go at any one, but just what I have experienced in life
Mine are in a 6x2x2 which is too small already and there only 20-25cm disc size, however plans of some form of tub / indoor pond in my new house are in motion (get the keys next week so going to measure something up. Along the lines of 8x4x18" for my pair I think.
QUOTE (Buccal @ Oct 29 2012, 08:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Why is it that the people doing the wrong thing always spoils it for people doing the right thing ?
Money motivation and no understanding or passion......... Not having a go at any one, but just what I have experienced in life
#83
Peckoltia
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- Forum Member Joined: 15-October 04
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Location: Dianella
Posted 29 October 2012 - 10:41 AM
Dave - You are losing your credibility fast. Big noting yourself is never a good thing. Zach is after 10, Jules said he will take 2 and there are repeat posts in the classifieds looking for rays. For someone who has so much access to so many rays, you don't seem to be able to actually help anyone out? I know of one person thus far.
The bragging about the people you sell them to keeping them in a 2' wide tank isn't doing you any favours either. Grow up mate.
The bragging about the people you sell them to keeping them in a 2' wide tank isn't doing you any favours either. Grow up mate.
#84
Poncho
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- Committee
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Joined: 20-January 06
Vice Presidente Castro
- Location:Warnbro
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Location: Warnbro
Posted 29 October 2012 - 05:11 PM
Let me get this straight – the breeders of stingrays are all completely responsible people, it’s the onsellers who have no moral code? What a convenient mindset to have:
“I’m not doing anything wrong, I only breed the fish, I don’t give them to people who can’t look after them.”
“The breeder is not the criminal, it’s the gun – the mindless instrument that is manipulated to perform an atrocious act.”
No, an accurate analogy is that the stingray is the gun. The breeder would be the gun runner who gives the criminal the means to perform a crime. And last I checked, stingrays didn’t fall out of the sky, so the onsellers have to be getting their fish from somewhere else.
But here’s a solution for responsible breeding/keeping of stingrays – let me know what you think. Current breeders should only sell males to people who already have the means to house the animals at adult size. Don’t enable other people to breed things that are going to become a major problem down the track.
That way, truly passionate and genuine people will still buy the males as they want to know about these fish and observe them. But you’ll also avoid the profiteers who care nothing beyond their bottom line as how are they supposed to make money out of it!? Let someone show their worth before recruiting them as a future breeder – by that I mean showing long term interest in the fish, not a person who keeps things for five minutes and then sells on the forum.
The ray scene is small enough that current breeders can get together and work cooperatively – needs to happen. A demonstration of a self-regulated section of the hobby would be fantastic. A group of people with their heads in the sand spells disaster.
“I’m not doing anything wrong, I only breed the fish, I don’t give them to people who can’t look after them.”
“The breeder is not the criminal, it’s the gun – the mindless instrument that is manipulated to perform an atrocious act.”
No, an accurate analogy is that the stingray is the gun. The breeder would be the gun runner who gives the criminal the means to perform a crime. And last I checked, stingrays didn’t fall out of the sky, so the onsellers have to be getting their fish from somewhere else.
But here’s a solution for responsible breeding/keeping of stingrays – let me know what you think. Current breeders should only sell males to people who already have the means to house the animals at adult size. Don’t enable other people to breed things that are going to become a major problem down the track.
That way, truly passionate and genuine people will still buy the males as they want to know about these fish and observe them. But you’ll also avoid the profiteers who care nothing beyond their bottom line as how are they supposed to make money out of it!? Let someone show their worth before recruiting them as a future breeder – by that I mean showing long term interest in the fish, not a person who keeps things for five minutes and then sells on the forum.
The ray scene is small enough that current breeders can get together and work cooperatively – needs to happen. A demonstration of a self-regulated section of the hobby would be fantastic. A group of people with their heads in the sand spells disaster.
#85
Buccal
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- Forum Member Joined: 02-October 10
Posted 29 October 2012 - 08:33 PM
QUOTE (Poncho @ Oct 29 2012, 05:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Let me get this straight – the breeders of stingrays are all completely responsible people, it’s the onsellers who have no moral code? What a convenient mindset to have:
“I’m not doing anything wrong, I only breed the fish, I don’t give them to people who can’t look after them.”
“The breeder is not the criminal, it’s the gun – the mindless instrument that is manipulated to perform an atrocious act.”
No, an accurate analogy is that the stingray is the gun. The breeder would be the gun runner who gives the criminal the means to perform a crime. And last I checked, stingrays didn’t fall out of the sky, so the onsellers have to be getting their fish from somewhere else.
But here’s a solution for responsible breeding/keeping of stingrays – let me know what you think. Current breeders should only sell males to people who already have the means to house the animals at adult size. Don’t enable other people to breed things that are going to become a major problem down the track.
That way, truly passionate and genuine people will still buy the males as they want to know about these fish and observe them. But you’ll also avoid the profiteers who care nothing beyond their bottom line as how are they supposed to make money out of it!? Let someone show their worth before recruiting them as a future breeder – by that I mean showing long term interest in the fish, not a person who keeps things for five minutes and then sells on the forum.
The ray scene is small enough that current breeders can get together and work cooperatively – needs to happen. A demonstration of a self-regulated section of the hobby would be fantastic. A group of people with their heads in the sand spells disaster.
What about the rest of the bigger tank busters, we regulate that to ?“I’m not doing anything wrong, I only breed the fish, I don’t give them to people who can’t look after them.”
“The breeder is not the criminal, it’s the gun – the mindless instrument that is manipulated to perform an atrocious act.”
No, an accurate analogy is that the stingray is the gun. The breeder would be the gun runner who gives the criminal the means to perform a crime. And last I checked, stingrays didn’t fall out of the sky, so the onsellers have to be getting their fish from somewhere else.
But here’s a solution for responsible breeding/keeping of stingrays – let me know what you think. Current breeders should only sell males to people who already have the means to house the animals at adult size. Don’t enable other people to breed things that are going to become a major problem down the track.
That way, truly passionate and genuine people will still buy the males as they want to know about these fish and observe them. But you’ll also avoid the profiteers who care nothing beyond their bottom line as how are they supposed to make money out of it!? Let someone show their worth before recruiting them as a future breeder – by that I mean showing long term interest in the fish, not a person who keeps things for five minutes and then sells on the forum.
The ray scene is small enough that current breeders can get together and work cooperatively – needs to happen. A demonstration of a self-regulated section of the hobby would be fantastic. A group of people with their heads in the sand spells disaster.
Peacock bass are not far of the same requirements.
Plenty other fish need big tanks to for complete well being.
It cannot be regulated. If it were to try and be regulated here someone will take advantage and bring them from the east anyway.
Already it's regulated by early deaths.
Just guessing again, 80% of the total ray death would be before maturing stage any way.
Excellent filtration and maintenance as well as feeding must be administered correctly for success before one can grow a ray big enough to actually die or suffer from incorrect housing.
When a rule or law is put in place it only works if everyone follows.
Getting people of the east and west to follow such a rule is not very realistic.
Millions of battery hens are suffering inadequate housing.
People lock up family pet cattle dogs and don't walk them.
Cattle get treated unfairly in indonesia.
A place where they string dogs of trees and beat with a stick and kick till they die from a belief of stressed meat tastes better.
Bears chained up with weeper tubes draining of stomach juice to add to food dishes.
There's a lot of unfair things going on in the world of all descriptions.
Sure it starts with us making the right decision and doing the right thing, but misery is all around us.
We can't controll everything nor can we govern.
Unstoppable misery is the way it is.
It will never be the way it should be.
Misery in aquarium life isn't just with rays, it's many varieties of other species that would be in a lot larger numbers that suffer to.
#86
Poncho
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- Committee
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Joined: 20-January 06
Vice Presidente Castro
- Location:Warnbro
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Location: Warnbro
Posted 29 October 2012 - 09:31 PM
You're right of course buccal....much easier and more effective to just bag out anyone who sells fish cheaper on a forum 
#87
Buccal
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- Forum Member Joined: 02-October 10
Posted 29 October 2012 - 09:35 PM
Yep, you got it dude
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