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Koi Herpes Virus


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#21 Delapool

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Posted 07 May 2016 - 04:48 PM

Thanks, that's a great read. Lol - carpageddon.

#22 malawiman85

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Posted 07 May 2016 - 05:35 PM

Really good discussion.
I agree that the biggest problem with using a virus will be how to tackle the remaining population. I wonder how a much smaller population of carp would go in competition with cod, tandanus, etc.
I guess they were pretty successful when they first established themselves in the MDB but in fairness there was a drastically reduced population of cod particularly of big angry specimens due to commercial over fishing at the time that might have contributed to the carps initial success.


Edited by malawiman85, 07 May 2016 - 09:34 PM.


#23 shayne

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Posted 07 May 2016 - 06:34 PM

Withdrawn cat comment.


Edited by shayne, 07 May 2016 - 06:37 PM.


#24 Delapool

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Posted 07 May 2016 - 10:18 PM

Another article

https://blog.csiro.a...rom-feral-carp/

#25 bigjohnnofish

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Posted 08 May 2016 - 01:10 AM

People have the right to have their reservations but they should spread fears without actually understanding the issue.

 

hmmm that sounds like a very educated statement... did you actually read and research this statement before you posted it ???   :)

 

 

heres a cut an paste that just gives me oodles of confidence in this....lol

 

This virus, once known as koi herpesvirus, is now formally known as Cyprinid herpesvirus 3 (CyHV-3). Seven years of CSIRO research, supported by the Invasive Animals-Cooperative Research Centre (CRC), has shown that the use of CyHV-3 as a biocontrol agent could significantly reduce the number of common carp (Cyprinus carpio) in our rivers.

 

the word to look at is  "COULD"  now thats a big if... if they are so confident its gonna work they should say "WILL" 

 

and another cut/paste

 

CyHV-3, which was first discovered in Israel in 1998, has devastated carp farming around the world 

 

 

i wonder just how many people will be effected by the release of this virus.... do we farm carp in australia for the production of fertilizer ?
 
 
yes we do - so i guess these people that depend on carp to make a living are going to be greatly compensated by the govt? hahha the thought is just so funny - they should be able to sue... and sue the people directly that release this virus in the civil courts too... 
 
maybe the cowboys that think they can fix everything with a virus should come up to my place and see the massive amount of rabbits we have and subsequent foxes and we can go for a short drive and see feral pigs in the 100's and 1000's.... 

Edited by bigjohnnofish, 08 May 2016 - 01:38 AM.

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#26 Bostave

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Posted 08 May 2016 - 03:52 AM

Dear bigjohnnofish, did you read any ecology and biotechnology text books ever? You are embarrassing yourself. Please stop commenting on this thread as you just cannot comprehend the problem and the solution. There are many ways ornamental and carp producers can protect their carps. I am no longer wasting my time explaining it to you as you clearly do not have any understanding of this subject and like to be stubborn about not understanding it.

#27 Delapool

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Posted 08 May 2016 - 08:44 AM

Out of interest what sort of ways could be used to protect ornamental koi? One of the articles mentions something like normal bio-security measures but doesn't really say what. I assume that would be quarantining somehow / preventing transfer between natural FW bodies & holding pens. For example the cemetery in QLD near where I grew up had ponds near to streams. I'm all for getting rid of them but couldn't find a lot of articles on how this would be all managed. I assume this would be the case.

Edited by Delapool, 08 May 2016 - 08:45 AM.


#28 Bostave

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Posted 08 May 2016 - 09:44 AM

I am aquaculture graduate and have phd in lobster infections. we used the following during bacterial as well viral outbreaks.
http://www.fao.org/d...5e/i0095e00.HTM

#29 sydad

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Posted 08 May 2016 - 10:16 AM

Hey Johnno, where did you access info that said carp are farmed in Oz (obviously ornamental koi breeding aside).. In most states they are declared noxious, and I can find no reference to carp farming per se, and it just does not make sense to spend money on an enterprise that provides what can be had for nothing.

 

I remember seeing, some years ago, an area of several hundred acres, that was an isolated flood plain on the Murray river. During floods it became a shallow lake that dried in summer. When i saw it, it was in the latter stages of the drying process and carp were being harvested by a commercial fertiliser enterprise. At the time I was there it was literally swimming with carp, and several thousand tonnes had already been collected. The fecundity of these introduced pests is difficult to appreciate, as is the environmental degradation they cause.

 

In the final analysis, something HAS to be done about the problem, and while there are always grey areas in biological controls, they seldom provide anywhere near the problems engenderd by the target species, and the benefits are clear. Consider the success of the Cactoblastis moth in eliminating the vast tracts of prickly pear that were the result of it's introduction.The viral control of rabbits has been mentioned, and it is clear that only biological control will work to ameliorate the cane toad problem.

 

Syd.



#30 malawiman85

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Posted 08 May 2016 - 10:21 AM

Impact of carp in the murray river.http://www.dpi.nsw.g...ral-information

#31 Westie

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Posted 08 May 2016 - 10:44 PM



#32 bigjohnnofish

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Posted 09 May 2016 - 12:24 AM

Dear bigjohnnofish, did you read any ecology and biotechnology text books ever? You are embarrassing yourself. Please stop commenting on this thread as you just cannot comprehend the problem and the solution. There are many ways ornamental and carp producers can protect their carps. I am no longer wasting my time explaining it to you as you clearly do not have any understanding of this subject and like to be stubborn about not understanding it.

 

now that in my view can be deemed a personal attack which isnt allowed...  trying to belittle someone with childish comments...

 

what are  your credentials and your level of education in this area and maybe someone will take notice of you... 

 

i finished year 11 + 12 and finished in the top 1% maths in australia top 5% in physics and chemistry in the state... and also achieved high in history and human biol  but didnt do quite so well in english... went on to curtin university....  so i may not be the sharpest tool in the shed but i aint stupid.... 



#33 bigjohnnofish

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Posted 09 May 2016 - 01:13 AM

Hey Johnno, where did you access info that said carp are farmed in Oz (obviously ornamental koi breeding aside).. In most states they are declared noxious, and I can find no reference to carp farming per se, and it just does not make sense to spend money on an enterprise that provides what can be had for nothing.

 

I remember seeing, some years ago, an area of several hundred acres, that was an isolated flood plain on the Murray river. During floods it became a shallow lake that dried in summer. When i saw it, it was in the latter stages of the drying process and carp were being harvested by a commercial fertiliser enterprise. At the time I was there it was literally swimming with carp, and several thousand tonnes had already been collected. The fecundity of these introduced pests is difficult to appreciate, as is the environmental degradation they cause.

 

In the final analysis, something HAS to be done about the problem, and while there are always grey areas in biological controls, they seldom provide anywhere near the problems engenderd by the target species, and the benefits are clear. Consider the success of the Cactoblastis moth in eliminating the vast tracts of prickly pear that were the result of it's introduction.The viral control of rabbits has been mentioned, and it is clear that only biological control will work to ameliorate the cane toad problem.

 

Syd.

 

i fully agree there is a problem - and also believe there will be a viable solution but the track record of introducing any thing exotic into this country speaks for itself... many many more failures than a few success stories... i have no objection when something 100% safe can be introduced without impacting on a lot of current industries and people... close friend used to breed koi for the japanese market... had approx 2 acres of water in several dams and did it for 10 years and sold 2 fish and netted 1.25 million dollars in the process... his mate still does this and has 5 x water area and stock.... if a water bird carries this virus and spreads it into his dams and kills his koi how happy do you think he is gonna be? he's a multi millionaire from selling koi - is there going to be vaccinations that can protect his stock??? and im sure hes not the only one...

bump up fertilizer production and get people on the dole to fish carp all day to receive their social security payments....



#34 Bostave

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Posted 09 May 2016 - 03:36 AM

Dear bigjohnnofish, I did not make a personal attack on you. My comments weren't childish. I walked away because you didnt get the problem even after explaining it to heaps. My credentials are posted above. Now please stop quoting me. Your own views expressed through your comments belittled you. I simply asked you read about it. Now please stop embarrassing yourself further.

Edited by Bostave, 09 May 2016 - 03:45 AM.


#35 Bostave

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Posted 09 May 2016 - 10:36 AM

Dear bigjohnnofish, please read my comments and there is nothing there that belittles you. I never asked for your educational history or any other sob story. You just put it there. I was defending the scientific principles and tried my best to explain. You on the other hand ridiculed the process and then the problem itself. I have no issues with you. I hope you have a good day!

#36 Poncho

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Posted 09 May 2016 - 01:08 PM

Yeah yeah ok guys - let's not turn every constructive topic on this forum into a petty argument on who knows more than the other person. I didn't feel any personal attacks were being made until now just some lively debate. If you can't debate without making it personal then don't comment and ruin it for everyone else.

#37 sydad

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Posted 09 May 2016 - 02:25 PM

Johnno, the scenario proposed by the OP, (or a vet whom he claims told him), wherein a water bird transmits CHV to an aquaculture facility, is so unlikely as to be infinitesimally small. Consider: the bird needs to be in water with a high virus particle count, then transfer a quantity of that water within a relatively short time to an aquaculture pond. Then the virus has to be transferred to the pond inhabitants before becoming inactivated. CHV,like all infective agents has a minimal infective dose, and the chance of this dose being realised in this scenario is unlikely, if not  impossible. Any aquaculturist who felt that even this risk is too much always has the alternative of netting  pools to prevent bird access; this is not a prohibitively expensive procedure.

 

I am assuming that your suggestion to employ dole recipients to remove significant numbers of carp was made tongue-in-cheek.

 

Syd.



#38 Westie

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Posted 09 May 2016 - 03:34 PM

Fishing for the dole? How much does it pay?



#39 shayne

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Posted 09 May 2016 - 04:15 PM

Dear bigjohnnofish, I was not trying to offend you. I tried to explain the principles/techniques used for eradication of invasive species. There is a big list of such species and they have been introduced intentionally or unintentionally by humans. You cannot comprehend the the damage they can these cause. This is plain and simple and not an insult. Based on your comments what damage they can cause and linking to recession. People at Csiro know what they are doing and done the research. I would advice you to read to some textbooks on ecology and biotechnology, before you make any more comments. You are insulting yourself with your comments that clearly show you have no understanding of this issue and just want to be scared. The government did not introduce most of the invasive species but early settlers did. Cane toads were an exception but that was done with inadequate research.

Weren't cane toads introduced by by the QLD sugar board AGAINST the advice of CSRIO?



#40 Den

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Posted 09 May 2016 - 11:08 PM

According to various media articles circulating, the virus can be spread by fish merely brushing past each other, and the virus can survive suspended in the water for several days without a host waiting to infect, so you are looking at your entire waterways filled with a fish herpes virus permanently! sounds so attractive, and what could possibly go wrong?

 

My problems with this proposed solution;

 

1. Firstly they admit it wont even work! they already know the fish will become resistant and their own studies show it wont eradicate them.

 

2. Various studies have shown(example link below) the disappearance of natives and the explosion of carp population is mainly due to human habit destruction, damns, water diversion, clearing, farming, mining, agriculture are the main causes of the problem, so they are not tackling the core of the problem.

 

3. Viruses can mutate - what long term studies can prove it wont mutate in 10 to 50 years to attack other fish or other animals, birds, people? When it reaches its peak saturation and you have virus rich waters, and reduced number of carp hosts, can a mutation jump to new hosts? Did you ever hear of swine flu or bird flu? viruses jumping hosts is not a new thing, maybe our government is jealous of these other countries having dangerous viruses skipping from animals to people, I guess a new fish flu epidemic could put us Aussies on the map!

 

4. Viruses can lay dormant without effecting a host and activate at any time to cause problems in the future - what study can guarantee its safety with humans and other species over long term?

 

5. Various viruses have been linked to cancers, this is still a fairly new discovery to science so we should not be messing with viruses while we still know bugger all about them.

 

There is no possible way they can have a study that guarantee's its safety 100%, I think there will be a strong movement against this virus release once people understand the risks and the fact its a plan that seems set for failure.

 

http://www.pestsmart...s_of_Carpv1.pdf


Edited by Den, 09 May 2016 - 11:10 PM.





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