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Using Ro Water To Breed Bn And Rams


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#1 Michael the fish fanatic

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 02:21 PM

Hey guys I wanted to know if I could use 60% RO water and 40% tapwater with conditioner for when I do water changes in my aquarium to lower ph and soften water but not take out to many minerals. I wanted to know what is the best ph and water hardness for breeding longfin BN and ram cichlids.

#2 MrLeifBeaver

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 03:23 PM

Bermont can advise on this. He has bread L144s



#3 Bermont

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 04:04 PM

i use mainly rain water with some tap water for my water changes, common BN and most other ancistrus strains will breed is almost any conditions as long as there is caves for them to breed in, as for rams, thats a tiny bit more difficult, especially with the size of their fry and eggs, ive had successful hatchings from my butterfly rams, the water was fairly soft as i used a lot of driftwood in the tank, i still use water conditioner tho to add electrolites and other goodies to the water if that helps



#4 Brett

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 09:45 PM

Breeding Rams it is usually recommended than you have soft, slightly acidic water.

How much you dilute your tap water depends on how hard it is.

Generally there is a compromise between very soft water, which has a inherently unstable pH, and harder water

I suspect the most important measure of "hardness" is total dissolved solids, but most people don't measure this.

 

Cheers

Brett



#5 Michael the fish fanatic

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 11:19 PM

Hey guys my RO water tests at about 6.5 could I use strait RO or strait rain water. Also if I mixed RO water with tapwater would the ph lower and hardness lower? Thanks

#6 Michael the fish fanatic

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 11:19 PM

Hey guys my RO water tests at about 6.5 could I use strait RO or strait rain water. Also if I mixed RO water with tapwater would the ph lower and hardness lower? Thanks

#7 bigjohnnofish

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 12:39 AM

dont mean to be negative... b/n will breed in a 20l bucket if you put a sponge filter in there with a cave :) oh and add some water lol :)

 

your going to extremes that truly are not needed... your not breeding a rare exotic fish that resists breeding in captivity :)

 

tap water is fine whether ph is 5 or 9 - b/n will breed in it...  



#8 Michael the fish fanatic

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 08:15 AM

I am also wanting to convert my 70l tank into a planted tank with angels so could I use strait RO for that or do I need to dilute with tap water, and if I mix them will the ph and hardness be lower than regular tapwater? Thanks for you help btw

#9 theKid

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 09:49 AM

I would call 70L too small for angels, remember they get pretty tall.  Unless you have altums or terrible tap water I would say the RO is not required.



#10 Michael the fish fanatic

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 10:15 AM

My tank is tall and I was gonna relocate them when they get big now can someone answer my question in my last post?
And my tap waters ph is 8 and the RO water is 6.5

#11 Brett

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 05:43 PM

 

Hey guys my RO water tests at about 6.5 could I use strait RO or strait rain water

No, that is not a good idea.

 

 

And my tap waters ph is 8

For breeding Rams, it is not the Ph but the hardness that is most important. I would probably dilute your tap water 50:50 with the RO water and then test it to see if your hardness is suitable.

 

Cheers

Brett



#12 Michael the fish fanatic

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 06:01 PM

Ok thanks

#13 bigjohnnofish

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 01:44 AM

you will find angels (are a cichlid) and have been bred here extensively and have adapted to mains water conditions.... local bred discuss have also adpated to higher ph's and breed in ph of 7 or even higher...

 

the necessity for low ph's isnt really needed... i have bred rare fish that are never supposed to breed in a ph over 7 and tds level over 100ppm.... but its been done as the fish do get used to our tap water conditions...

 

again your going to way to much bother to get success... if you cant achieve results in mains water then consider changing it :)



#14 Michael the fish fanatic

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 07:08 AM

Ok thanks

#15 Hooked

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 10:53 AM

Hi Michael,

 

The advice above is right on. When it comes to breeding Discus, in my experience as the above have said, they will live/breed in a wide range of conditions. Its the big swings in water parameters that can freak them out. Being consistent with your ph etc over an extended period, keeping it in the higher end of your prefered range, then a large water change with lower ph can help stimulate your fish to spawn. My Bolivian Butterflies and Blue Rams use to breed in my community tank that was all tap water under these conditions.

Reverse osmosis, rain water mix etc over an extended period can breed "fussy" fish. Not really fair if you are intending to a sell a few into your local area where the majority will put them into a tap water tank and then have probs. Greatly increasing the tap water content during grow out will make the fish hardier.

You asked about setting your p.h with the mix. When using rain/tap mix I concentrate on getting the Parts Per Million (PPM) of Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) right as Brett said. Then I find the Ph is generally still a bit high. I then use Hydrochloric acid to adjust my Ph. Hcl is cheap and won't add to your Total Dissolved. Just be careful with it of course. I have had better results using Rain/tap mix BUT my fish still breed without it, just not as often and not as many at the same time. I'm now increasing my tap water content as summer is coming and less rain to use to mix. Also my 1000lt display is like an orgy in a war zone at the moment. Many pairs vying for space and partners which causes stress and the odd member of the clean up crew are getting knocked about if they get to close to pairs setting up house. 

Never use 100% straight R.O or rain water as your fish need minerals to grow which are in the tap water. Also if the water is too pure you have more chances of the ph crashing as not much to buffer against the falling ph. 

Is it worth all the trouble? Thats up to you. I enjoy the technical side of breeding and manipulating conditions. But I'm no expert by a long way. Also, keep a log book of notes of what you are doing. Just a few notes each day helps with remembering what you have been doing/need to do. Just some things to consider. Hope it helps,

 

Cheers






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