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Chlorine in water: do we get worked up about nothing?


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#41 Mr_docfish

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  • Location: Canning Vale WA

Posted 25 January 2008 - 08:05 PM

The fact that most people do not notice any problems with adding straight tap water to their tank has a mutitude of reasons:
Plants in the tank
Organic load in the tank
Water chemistry in the tank
The chemical composition of the tap water in the area
The chemical levels of the tap water on the day
The species of fish in the tank
The amount of water being changed
etc (I'm sure there's more)


If 90% of fish keepers wont keep a quarantine tank to save their fish, how many others will find the urge to have a holding tank to age their water?
I agree that when done correctly, the ageing process combined with some form of chemical removal, such as live plants in the water, carbon or ion exchange resins, is the best way to go. Aerating IMO is only targeting the chlorine, and not the other chemicals that we have to endure that are added to our tap water.
With the majority of fish keepers, a holding tank is not in the picture.....I find it hard enough to convince people to add conditioners to their tap water, let alone another container in the house or backyard and have it filled several days before, and buy another air pump.
Again, I'd say it is the best method, if done properly, and if you want to cover all bases (you can also play with the temperature and water chemistry if you want at this time and if you know what you are doing).
The second best method is adding a conditioner. The problem is, which one and do I follow the directions or do I add a little extra to be sure? Just get a good one and add a bit more to be sure that you got the dose right.
The worst choice is to add the tap water (when adding more than 10%) straight from the tap. This is playing with fire, one day you will get burnt!

So age your water, or add some form of quality conditioner before you add tap water to your tank.......or if you won't, don't complain when all of a sudden there is an "unexplained crash" and you are told that it is your fault for not trying a little harder to look after your fish...... :x

I have come across this situation way too many times, and it is all too frequent, and it irritates me that half the time, the fish keeper involved is too stubborn to believe me.

Got that off my chest

Oliver

#42 Warp

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  • Location: Willetton SOR

Posted 28 January 2008 - 08:36 PM

Giday guys,

I have read through this thread with interest, having suffered from a tank crash not too long ago, even after adding a dechlorinator/ water ager(Prime) during a water change, I have taken on a renewed attitude to what I am adding to my tanks, I do not want that happening again. (Just for the record it is a 4x2x1.5 tank and was a heavily planted tank, and not over stocked, though I did lose a few fish, including some of my favourite rainbows) I had conducted water changes on that tank for nearly 3 years in the same manner without issue.. It was my own mistake for not aging tap water prior, I was under the belief that Prime would have done the job in dechlorinating, but I guess it was one of those Water corp "over chlorinating" days ... I am currently looking at investing in a sizable storage tank to provide the means to age the water for my other tanks. At this stage I will be using aged scheme water.... However..

Just to go off topic a little, is bore water usable? I realise different area's will have different readings for there bore water in hardness, salts PH etc etc but can you use this water for your tanks, if it is left to age and aerated, and it ends up testing ok with all the usual tests? Or is there more things that need to be done to it to be viable as tank water? Like does it contain heavy metals, or other baddies?

I have relatively zero knowledge when it comes to this, Although we use it to top up our pool and water the plants/lawn etc, and figure perhaps it is possible to do something with it on the tank scene. Has anyone out there treated and used it for tank water with success?

If this is too far off topic and needs its own thread please can you sling it in the right spot thank you. smile.gif

regards

Mike.

#43 Mr_docfish

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  • Location: Canning Vale WA

Posted 28 January 2008 - 09:48 PM

You will have to look at the quality of the water in your individual bore, each is slightly different.
Salt, Iron and pH (after aerating it for 24hours) are the common factors to look at.
pH is not a problem, you can adjust that
Iron can be removed by aerating for some time and allowing the water to settle (the iron will settle out as clay)
Salt is one thing that is hard to get out, but in Willetton, you would find the salt levels are quite low, and should be suitable.

I had a good idea (could be used for tap water too!);
Set up a pond in the back yard (Mum or the wife will love it) just don't tell them it is for ageing your bore water (attach a float valve, connected to your bore) and pump the water from there to do water changes (temperature is the only problem during winter = smaller water changes)
Might work for smaller tanks, otherwise, make a bigger pond!!

HTH
Oliver

#44 Meghan

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  • Location:Leeming, WA
  • Location: Leeming, WA

Posted 29 January 2008 - 07:31 PM

(Leevers)
I'm more concerned about the amounts of fluride...

Fact: Did you know that the Germans used Fluride Gases to sedate their prisoners and get them to talk during the world war?

Myth: It's good for your teeth?

Unknown: What are the exact amounts added to our tap water?


Flouride is good for your teeth, though. My boyfriend is a Dentist, and while yes, too much flouride is bad for you and your teeth (like eating toothpaste or swallowing it accidentally too often can cause permanent bright white marks on your teeth, for example), he's mentioned several times the difference between where he works in Bunbury, where there is no flouride in the water, and Perth, where there is.
From what he's said, and mentioned reading about in journals, patients who've grown up in areas without fluoride often have many more cavities and poorer tooth strength than areas with.
We were discussing it one time, and he basically said that fluoride in water would be pointless or even detrimental if everyone were to brush, floss, rinse etc twice a day, every day, and if they were to do it perfectly, but pretty much nobody does, (not even dentists!) so it's more likely to create beneficial effects in teeth than not.

That said, I don't know how good ingesting fluoride is for the rest of you, or the rest of it. I've heard lots of interesting rumours about it though (because Dentists when in groups tend to talk about Dentistry, I've picked up some things, hehe), but I feel that dentists don't have any reason to tell untruths about the beneficial effects of fluoride, particuarly my source of information, since he doesn't charge me for anything anyway! smile.gif

#45 Noddy65

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  • Location: The Oaks, Sydney, NSW

Posted 29 January 2008 - 07:41 PM

The whole Flouride used as a poison thing so it must be bad for you is just so much myth.
Many of the things we eat and drink (even the 'natural' /'organic' things) have the potential to be toxic if taken the wrong way.
Asbestos can be eaten (if your so inclined) with little damage but just dont inhale the fibres.
Dont drink green tea if your pregnant, this 'natural and good' tea is tied to birth defects (apparently).
We can eat grapes/chocolate/onions but dont give them to your dog

Its a fascinating subject.

Mike

#46 Poncho

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  • Location: Warnbro

Posted 29 January 2008 - 08:48 PM

It is fascinating subject and an important one.

I get quite annoyed by the fact that the government adds fluoride to our water for this reason:

[quote]We were discussing it one time, and he basically said that fluoride in water would be pointless or even detrimental if everyone were to brush, floss, rinse etc twice a day, every day, and if they were to do it perfectly, but pretty much nobody does[/quote]

If you don't maintain your teeth that is your decision and your own fault when they fall out. As mentioned, there is plenty of debate as to whether fluoride additions to water is of an overall benefit or not. However, by adding it to our water supply, the government is denying members of the public the ability to choose whether or not fluoride is good for them. IMO they are treating us all as idiots rather than just those that don't brush their teeth.

The science on both sides of the arguement is credible but the government has made the decision for us that we will have fluoride. Some say because it allows certain industries an avenue to dispose of their fluoride based waste products but that is probably conjecture.

Even though I'm enjoying this thread I'm going to shut up now before I work myself up :x [/quote]

#47 Mr_docfish

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  • Location: Canning Vale WA

Posted 30 January 2008 - 10:16 PM

I find the addition of Chlorine and Fluoride not a problem if the ageing process is used (or a conditioner is used) and the fact that they are quickly neutralized by organics in the aquarium (unless it is an all glass aquarium such as used in quarantining, where either method of conditioning must be used).
It is the other chemicals that are added like copper sulphate and aluminium sulphate. These tend to hang around, in particular in softer water areas (SOR) for a while before being used in some way by either (organics? Syd, correct me here if I am wrong) or by plants. In the mean time, these are harmful to most aquatic fauna. I can say from experience with fish in my shop, that I have seen Koi, catfish and barbs being affected by these chemicals in the past, and with the increase in EDTA in our mix 6 years ago, I have not seen these problems again. (Keep in mind that I add a small amount of our conditioner daily (most systems are water changed about 10-15% daily) so this keeps the EDTA content up. Our General Aid that we also use, also contains some EDTA)
In My situation, I have to rely on conditioners (that's why I tailor make my own). Without it, it would be impossible to keep the fish, and I don't have the space or time to age the water.

Oliver




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