As the guys have said above....its quite normal. Its just splash back from the drips hitting the water. I would personally clean it off as it does make it much easier to see if the units drip rate is accurate or not. I just give it a quick scrub under warm water with a hose cleaning brush or alternatively a quick dunk in chlorine (if its caked on) and a good wash under water
PCS & Stuart M. Grant - Cichlid Preservation Fund - Details here
Nitrate Reduction (56k Warning)
Started by Cawdor, Apr 23 2008 11:09 PM
119 replies to this topic
#102
Scat
-
- Forum Member Joined: 26-March 06
-
Location: Safety Bay
Posted 18 February 2009 - 08:48 PM
Ok thanks for your help Daz, Tim and Krystal 
Craig
Craig
#103
jcahow
-
- Forum Member Joined: 22-February 09
Posted 23 February 2009 - 02:18 PM
Hi,
I am new to this forum coming to you from the northern USA (very cold where I live right now).
I have been looking at Nitrate Reduction Filters as well and although this thread seems to be about one specific brand I thought you might be interested in another similar filter I found when researching just in case someone is looking at buying one.
The Nitrate Reduction Filter I was looking at was initially designed by someone a decade ago and the current generation is sold at their website www.aquaripure.com. They have their own vendor sub forum AQUARIPURE at http://www.fishforum.com where you can communicate directly with the owner, designer, and manufactuer or through vendor direct email www.aquaripure@yahoo.com.
They come in four sizes (American dollars):
Small $219 020-060 gallons
Medium $249 060-120 gallons
Large $299 120-240 gallons
X-Large $349 240-500 gallons
They work on the exact same principal as the Nitrate Reductor. The only difference is that they are a black plastic sealed unit and cannot use something like Deniballs and must be injected on a weekly basis with a small amount of Vodka or 25% Sugar water. They slow drip (3-5 drips per second) back into the tank with Nitrate free (or almost free) water greatly reducing the time between water changes as described already in this thread. The vendor does recommend some water changes but on a infrequent schedule to replace trace minerals.
This is a picture of the small size model with dimensions: http://www.aquaripur...quaripureUS.jpg
This is a picture of the medium size model with dimensions: http://www.aquaripur...quaripureUS.jpg
This is a picture of the large size model with dimensions: http://www.aquaripur...quaripureUS.jpg
This is a picture of the x-large size model with dimensions: http://www.aquaripur...denitrator1.jpg
I had a series of e-mail discussions with the vendor after reading through a number of the threads in their vendor sub forum mentioned above. I was looking at specifically adding one to my cichlid tank to augment the two Eheim canister filters already there to lower or remove the last Nitrates from the tank.
The main reason I did not progess further was because he told me that all other biological filtration was suppose to be removed from the tank and that only their Nitrate Reducing filter should do biological. He said that you do want mechanical filtration on the tank somehow (as his filter does none) and that all mechanical filtration has to be cleaned on a regular basis to keep the collected debris from breaking down into the normal biological cycle. For me this would mean either changing out my canisters for other type filter or changing their internal contents with more frequent cleaning than than I wanted to do (they are inside lower cabinet and I did not want to have to open them up weekly).
I am interested if this is what the people using the Nitrate Reductor have done regarding filtration and what types (if any) of other filtration they are using on the same tanks as the Nitrate Reductor.
There was one person in Melbourne inquiring about this filter because of severe water rationing that was in effect there trying to greatly reduce their number of regular water changes.
I did not mean to step on the Nitrate Reductor parade in this thread, I am sure it works fine and I like the idea of the Deniballs so that you do not have to regularlly inject it to keep the bacteria growing like the Aquaripure. The Aquaripure site has lots of customer testimonials to its success as well so these slow drips Nitrate reducing filters must work if the tank setup is correct.
Can anyone that has a Nitrate Reductor on freshwater tanks elaborate on what type of other filtration they have running as well and how often the other filtration must be cleaned?
I was also looking at adding a third low pump volume canister (30 - 40 gallons/hours max) with just Seachem de nitrate and Seachem Purigen inside which supposedly will drastically lower Nitrate levels according to their web site as an alternative to this discussion. Has anyone had good luck using these Seachem product to control and lower Nitrates in freshwater tanks?
I am new to this forum coming to you from the northern USA (very cold where I live right now).
I have been looking at Nitrate Reduction Filters as well and although this thread seems to be about one specific brand I thought you might be interested in another similar filter I found when researching just in case someone is looking at buying one.
The Nitrate Reduction Filter I was looking at was initially designed by someone a decade ago and the current generation is sold at their website www.aquaripure.com. They have their own vendor sub forum AQUARIPURE at http://www.fishforum.com where you can communicate directly with the owner, designer, and manufactuer or through vendor direct email www.aquaripure@yahoo.com.
They come in four sizes (American dollars):
Small $219 020-060 gallons
Medium $249 060-120 gallons
Large $299 120-240 gallons
X-Large $349 240-500 gallons
They work on the exact same principal as the Nitrate Reductor. The only difference is that they are a black plastic sealed unit and cannot use something like Deniballs and must be injected on a weekly basis with a small amount of Vodka or 25% Sugar water. They slow drip (3-5 drips per second) back into the tank with Nitrate free (or almost free) water greatly reducing the time between water changes as described already in this thread. The vendor does recommend some water changes but on a infrequent schedule to replace trace minerals.
This is a picture of the small size model with dimensions: http://www.aquaripur...quaripureUS.jpg
This is a picture of the medium size model with dimensions: http://www.aquaripur...quaripureUS.jpg
This is a picture of the large size model with dimensions: http://www.aquaripur...quaripureUS.jpg
This is a picture of the x-large size model with dimensions: http://www.aquaripur...denitrator1.jpg
I had a series of e-mail discussions with the vendor after reading through a number of the threads in their vendor sub forum mentioned above. I was looking at specifically adding one to my cichlid tank to augment the two Eheim canister filters already there to lower or remove the last Nitrates from the tank.
The main reason I did not progess further was because he told me that all other biological filtration was suppose to be removed from the tank and that only their Nitrate Reducing filter should do biological. He said that you do want mechanical filtration on the tank somehow (as his filter does none) and that all mechanical filtration has to be cleaned on a regular basis to keep the collected debris from breaking down into the normal biological cycle. For me this would mean either changing out my canisters for other type filter or changing their internal contents with more frequent cleaning than than I wanted to do (they are inside lower cabinet and I did not want to have to open them up weekly).
I am interested if this is what the people using the Nitrate Reductor have done regarding filtration and what types (if any) of other filtration they are using on the same tanks as the Nitrate Reductor.
There was one person in Melbourne inquiring about this filter because of severe water rationing that was in effect there trying to greatly reduce their number of regular water changes.
I did not mean to step on the Nitrate Reductor parade in this thread, I am sure it works fine and I like the idea of the Deniballs so that you do not have to regularlly inject it to keep the bacteria growing like the Aquaripure. The Aquaripure site has lots of customer testimonials to its success as well so these slow drips Nitrate reducing filters must work if the tank setup is correct.
Can anyone that has a Nitrate Reductor on freshwater tanks elaborate on what type of other filtration they have running as well and how often the other filtration must be cleaned?
I was also looking at adding a third low pump volume canister (30 - 40 gallons/hours max) with just Seachem de nitrate and Seachem Purigen inside which supposedly will drastically lower Nitrate levels according to their web site as an alternative to this discussion. Has anyone had good luck using these Seachem product to control and lower Nitrates in freshwater tanks?
#104
dazzabozza
-
- Admin
-
Joined: 16-March 07
Life Member
-
Location: Beeliar, Perth WA
Posted 27 February 2009 - 01:09 PM
Gday Jcahow and welcome to the forum. You're a fair trek away from us here Down Under.
I'm not sure how they expect you to acheieve this? Any form of mechanical filtration will result in biological filtration e.g. there is a surface area for bacteria to form on. All I can think of is they want you to remove things like canister filters because they have a large amount of detritus in them which is just going to increase the nitrate levels unless maintained regaulary.
IMO I would not recommend removing your current filters and relying on the denitrator alone. If a ammonia or nitrite spike was to occur surely with such a slow flow rate the denitrator could not get these back into safe levels in a small period of time. Also these drips systems can be hit and miss sometimes when it comes to flow-rate, blockages etc.
No harm in doing so plus you get the other bonuses of using Purigen (clearer water etc). But I'd expect this to be more expensive and to require more maintenance over time.
Cheers,
Daz
QUOTE
The main reason I did not progess further was because he told me that all other biological filtration was suppose to be removed from the tank and that only their Nitrate Reducing filter should do biological. He said that you do want mechanical filtration on the tank somehow (as his filter does none) and that all mechanical filtration has to be cleaned on a regular basis to keep the collected debris from breaking down into the normal biological cycle
I'm not sure how they expect you to acheieve this? Any form of mechanical filtration will result in biological filtration e.g. there is a surface area for bacteria to form on. All I can think of is they want you to remove things like canister filters because they have a large amount of detritus in them which is just going to increase the nitrate levels unless maintained regaulary.
IMO I would not recommend removing your current filters and relying on the denitrator alone. If a ammonia or nitrite spike was to occur surely with such a slow flow rate the denitrator could not get these back into safe levels in a small period of time. Also these drips systems can be hit and miss sometimes when it comes to flow-rate, blockages etc.
QUOTE
I was also looking at adding a third low pump volume canister (30 - 40 gallons/hours max) with just Seachem de nitrate and Seachem Purigen inside which supposedly will drastically lower Nitrate levels according to their web site as an alternative to this discussion. Has anyone had good luck using these Seachem product to control and lower Nitrates in freshwater tanks?
No harm in doing so plus you get the other bonuses of using Purigen (clearer water etc). But I'd expect this to be more expensive and to require more maintenance over time.
Cheers,
Daz
#105
jcahow
-
- Forum Member Joined: 22-February 09
Posted 27 February 2009 - 02:11 PM
Thanks for your response.
Here are my full exchanges with the Aquaripure owner.
Initial Query
I followed a link to your site and read all about your Denitrator filters. I have a number of questions I hope you can answer for me.
Currently I have two aquariums (a 29G with an Eheim 2026 canister and a 75G with dual Eheim 2026 and Eheim 2028 canisters). I have cichlids in both tanks and have them setup for maximum filtration as they can be messy fish trying for 5x tank size turn over per hour and both tanks have UV Sterilizers on output returns.
Your site says to use other filters for only for physical filtration when using a Denitrator. The Eheims have multiple baskets inside which hold either Eheim Mech for Physical filtration or Eheim Substrate for Biological filtration.
I presume I would not want to have any Substrate loaded in the Eheims. I presume I would still use the two Eheim filter pads (coarse and fine) in each filter as well.
1) I am unclear if I should leave the Eheim Substrate baskets empty or fill them with more Mech instead?
It seems like the Denitrator filter for my larger tank (75G) should be outputing 3 drops per second per your site. I am having a hard time grasping how this can be filtering the entire tank when this is such a small percentage of the flow I currently have going through the Eheim biological filters at the moment.
I am currently filtering hundreds of gallons per hour and would be dropping back to (3 x 60 x 60) 10,800 drops per hour for a biological exchange rate. I am not sure how much 10,800 drops is but it seems like it would take along time to turn over the entire 75G tank. I would have thought the Denitrator would have had a much higher flow rate.
2) Does the Nitrate level grow so slowly in a tank that this small Denitrator output flow can still handle all produced?
I wish you had some pictures on your site of the actual Denitrator filter and and the corresponding input and outputs. It looks like the input pump attaches to the inside back of the aquarium. (I could not initially locate the pictures in his site)
3) Does the input pump attach through suction cups or through some type of tank hanger and how long is the attached power cord?
I personally have replaced all the Eheim suction cups that came with my filters with Magclips which use industrial magnets because they give a much more secure connection and never come undone or wear out like suction cups.
4) I am wondering if it does use suction cups whether they can be removed and I could use a Magclip somehow instead?
I am also confused about how the Output hose is attached to the aquarium. Your diagram makes no effort to show how it actually attaches to the tank although you talk about adjusting the flow or possibly cleaning it.
5) Can you expand on exactly how the output hose is held into place and how easy it is to unattach and how secure it attaches?
I am also confused exactly how the EZ-feed system works. The diagram shows it horizontally on the filter head yet the EZ-feed page shows injecting in a vertical manner (cannot really see the actual filter, picture might be orientated wrong). It also does not make clear whether the injection can be done with the filter running or whether it has to be shutdown or how the injector is actually attached.
6) Can you expand on the EZ-feed injection process? Does Filter need to be stopped to inject? Does actual injector screw into place or is it friction fit on filter head?
7) Can you point me to any third party actual reviews of your product?
There are many aquarium sites or magazines that review equipment and I would prefer to see someone comment other than you or your customers opinions. You might want to send one or more a loner Denitrater filter for them to actually try out and review if you have not done so already and then link to those reviews off your site. Reviews can cover alot more than how the product actually works (i.e. quality, assembly, usage, customer support, instructions, value, long term care, etc....).
I am a consultant by nature and I think you could really improve your website by putting up some actual digital pictures of your Denitrator filter along with a PDF document (which could have the pictures) of the actually installation instructions, usage instructions, and parts list for download. You could also be explicit about what exactly ships in the box (length of cord and tubing, clamps, innjector, etc....)
Sounds like an interesting product and I want to hear more. I am not too happy to hear that it obsoletes much of what my Eheims are doing as they were expensive canisters (as well as the biological Substrate inside).
Initial response
Thank you for your interest. As you have so many good questions I will repost this Q&A on the forums I sponsor.
1) You can leave the substrates baskets empty or put in more mechanical filters, just make sure you rinse or replace all mechanical filtration weekly or else they too will quickly become nitrate factories.
3 drops per second is a return of 54 gallons per week. There will be some inefficiencies so you can consider this to be the equivalent of about 25-30 gallon weekly water change. If you do not believe this will be enough then you can set it slightly higher, to 4 or 5 drops per second but you want it as low as possible while still getting the job done 100%.
2) The medium Aquaripure is not that small, 7 1/4" x 9 3/4" x 24 1/2", and there is a link to a large picture of it on the website, http://www.aquaripur...quaripureUS.jpg
3/4) Yes, they are small suction cups but I have personally found them to be adequate and they can be removed. I am not familiar with “Magiclip” but I assume you could fashion it to the pump somehow. The cord and the inflow and outflow tubing are all about 5.5 feet.
4/5) The outflow hose can either drip into a sump, another filter, or just on the top of the tank. I provide plastic ties so that you can secure it to any other cord or hose around so that it stays in place.
The filter stays running when you inject nutrient. An older model of Aquaripure had a vertical feeding tube but the new models have a horizontal tube. That is very observant of you; I need to update the picture, thanks.
6) You simply inject a needle less syringe into the tube and squirt the vodka or sugar water. The tip of the syringe fits exactly into the little piece of tube in the feeding tube and makes a seal.
7) Currently FAMA (Freshwater And Marine Aquarium) magazine is in the process of reviewing it but it will probably take several more months before publication. I agree that I should get the Aquaripure to more people to review. As we continue to do well and grow I will definitely work towards that.
Thank you for all of your feedback, I will take it seriously. Feedback from customers like you is why the product is what it is today. I have made dozens of changes to the product design, website, and manual over the years thanks to customer feedback and this is why I enjoy such a high customer satisfaction rate today.
Kind Regards,
Second Query
Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions.
"You can leave the substrates baskets empty or put in more mechanical filters, just make sure you rinse or replace all mechanical filtration weekly or else they too will quickly become nitrate factories."
Your reply to my first question troubles me. I hardly need to attend to my canisters at all (maybe cleaning them every 3-4 months) which is why I like them in the first place. I think you are telling me that the stuff they would be pulling in and trapping mechanically would break down and create more nitrates that the Denitrator can apparently handle if the canisters are not cleaned on a regular (weekly) basis.
I understand that the time and effort this regular canister cleaning would entail is being offset by the time and effort saved by not doing as frequent water changes. I normally do 30% bi-weekly water changes now which I possibly could cut back on but I like cleaning the gravel on timely basis because the fish are messy anyways.
My nitrate levels hover around 20-30 and it would be great to get them at a sustained lower level. I was hoping that I could just add a Denitrator and leave my canisters entirely alone (using their current biological and mechanical filtering contents) and have the Denitrator remove the last (or almost all) of my remaining nitrates.
Why do you recommmend using only the Denitrator for biological filteting instead of as a supplemental biological filter?
I was really hoping for a solution that reduces my aquarium maintenance and does not increase it or switch one maintenance task for another.
Here is a link to a site selling Magclips http://www.drsfoster...fm?pcatid=19711 I highly recommend them as they attach securely and never wear out.
Second Response
It will greatly decrease the maintenance required. Honestly I never had canister filters and I had no idea they were any trouble at all to change or clean the media. I have always had easy access to my physical filter media and so it is very easy for me to clean or change it weekly. I always recommend changing or cleaning physical media weekly but no, it is not necessary in most cases. Perhaps I should change that wording to just say regularly. I would recommend cleaning them more than every 3-4 months though.
Kind Regards,
Third Query
Cleaning the canisters themselves is not hard, especially Eheims with their auto shutoff valves. It is a pain though because they are located in the cabinent under the tank and they have built in heaters which means the canisters are tied through cables to the tank (temperature probe and control) so I cannot just carry canisters to the sink (like non internal heater models).
You did not answer my question:
"Why do you recommmend using only the Denitrator for biological filteting instead of as a supplemental biological filter?"
Third Response
"Sorry, too much excess biological filtration can interfere with the function of the Aquaripure. The Aquaripure is a slow flow biological filter and needs at least some organic matter in the water column for the anaerobic bacteria to cycle and function properly. When a tank has a lot of biological filtration in relation to it's bioload all organic matter can very rapidly be broken down into nitrates and virtually none will remain in the water column. This sometimes happens in lightly stocked reef tanks and rarely in freshwater or fish only tanks. Note that the Aquaripure replaces other biological filtration and also adds an additional step of breaking down nitrates into gasses. A little other biological filtration is ok but it is not needed."
End of queries
So I am interpreting this to mean it is probably much more of an issue having other filtration in salt water reef tanks and probably would not be an issue for a freshwater tank. I agree that I would be leery of only having just a slow flow Denitrator filter on a large tank.
By the way for those actually looking for a API Nitrate Reductor 400 (smallest API model) filter I see they are on clearance at this link at a much reduced price (marked down half price from $140 to $70 US dollars but I not sure about shipping to Australia). http://www.bigalsonl...c...e=0&offset=
They DO NOT have Deniballs or Injection Power at this site but it is a great buy on the Nitrate Reductor 400 filter. I am not sure if this specific model is being phased out by API as it is no longer shown on the API web site.
I just added a low volume canister filter with a liter of Seachem De Nitrate and some Seachem Matrix Carbon in it today to my larger tank. It will take awhile for it to get going but hopefully I will see some kind of long term drop in my Nitrate levels.
Thanks again for your reply. I should let you know that while I have never been to Perth I have been to Australia (Melbourne, Canberra, Sydney) in years gone by and I am sorry to see all the wild fire damage...................
Here are my full exchanges with the Aquaripure owner.
Initial Query
I followed a link to your site and read all about your Denitrator filters. I have a number of questions I hope you can answer for me.
Currently I have two aquariums (a 29G with an Eheim 2026 canister and a 75G with dual Eheim 2026 and Eheim 2028 canisters). I have cichlids in both tanks and have them setup for maximum filtration as they can be messy fish trying for 5x tank size turn over per hour and both tanks have UV Sterilizers on output returns.
Your site says to use other filters for only for physical filtration when using a Denitrator. The Eheims have multiple baskets inside which hold either Eheim Mech for Physical filtration or Eheim Substrate for Biological filtration.
I presume I would not want to have any Substrate loaded in the Eheims. I presume I would still use the two Eheim filter pads (coarse and fine) in each filter as well.
1) I am unclear if I should leave the Eheim Substrate baskets empty or fill them with more Mech instead?
It seems like the Denitrator filter for my larger tank (75G) should be outputing 3 drops per second per your site. I am having a hard time grasping how this can be filtering the entire tank when this is such a small percentage of the flow I currently have going through the Eheim biological filters at the moment.
I am currently filtering hundreds of gallons per hour and would be dropping back to (3 x 60 x 60) 10,800 drops per hour for a biological exchange rate. I am not sure how much 10,800 drops is but it seems like it would take along time to turn over the entire 75G tank. I would have thought the Denitrator would have had a much higher flow rate.
2) Does the Nitrate level grow so slowly in a tank that this small Denitrator output flow can still handle all produced?
I wish you had some pictures on your site of the actual Denitrator filter and and the corresponding input and outputs. It looks like the input pump attaches to the inside back of the aquarium. (I could not initially locate the pictures in his site)
3) Does the input pump attach through suction cups or through some type of tank hanger and how long is the attached power cord?
I personally have replaced all the Eheim suction cups that came with my filters with Magclips which use industrial magnets because they give a much more secure connection and never come undone or wear out like suction cups.
4) I am wondering if it does use suction cups whether they can be removed and I could use a Magclip somehow instead?
I am also confused about how the Output hose is attached to the aquarium. Your diagram makes no effort to show how it actually attaches to the tank although you talk about adjusting the flow or possibly cleaning it.
5) Can you expand on exactly how the output hose is held into place and how easy it is to unattach and how secure it attaches?
I am also confused exactly how the EZ-feed system works. The diagram shows it horizontally on the filter head yet the EZ-feed page shows injecting in a vertical manner (cannot really see the actual filter, picture might be orientated wrong). It also does not make clear whether the injection can be done with the filter running or whether it has to be shutdown or how the injector is actually attached.
6) Can you expand on the EZ-feed injection process? Does Filter need to be stopped to inject? Does actual injector screw into place or is it friction fit on filter head?
7) Can you point me to any third party actual reviews of your product?
There are many aquarium sites or magazines that review equipment and I would prefer to see someone comment other than you or your customers opinions. You might want to send one or more a loner Denitrater filter for them to actually try out and review if you have not done so already and then link to those reviews off your site. Reviews can cover alot more than how the product actually works (i.e. quality, assembly, usage, customer support, instructions, value, long term care, etc....).
I am a consultant by nature and I think you could really improve your website by putting up some actual digital pictures of your Denitrator filter along with a PDF document (which could have the pictures) of the actually installation instructions, usage instructions, and parts list for download. You could also be explicit about what exactly ships in the box (length of cord and tubing, clamps, innjector, etc....)
Sounds like an interesting product and I want to hear more. I am not too happy to hear that it obsoletes much of what my Eheims are doing as they were expensive canisters (as well as the biological Substrate inside).
Initial response
Thank you for your interest. As you have so many good questions I will repost this Q&A on the forums I sponsor.
1) You can leave the substrates baskets empty or put in more mechanical filters, just make sure you rinse or replace all mechanical filtration weekly or else they too will quickly become nitrate factories.
3 drops per second is a return of 54 gallons per week. There will be some inefficiencies so you can consider this to be the equivalent of about 25-30 gallon weekly water change. If you do not believe this will be enough then you can set it slightly higher, to 4 or 5 drops per second but you want it as low as possible while still getting the job done 100%.
2) The medium Aquaripure is not that small, 7 1/4" x 9 3/4" x 24 1/2", and there is a link to a large picture of it on the website, http://www.aquaripur...quaripureUS.jpg
3/4) Yes, they are small suction cups but I have personally found them to be adequate and they can be removed. I am not familiar with “Magiclip” but I assume you could fashion it to the pump somehow. The cord and the inflow and outflow tubing are all about 5.5 feet.
4/5) The outflow hose can either drip into a sump, another filter, or just on the top of the tank. I provide plastic ties so that you can secure it to any other cord or hose around so that it stays in place.
The filter stays running when you inject nutrient. An older model of Aquaripure had a vertical feeding tube but the new models have a horizontal tube. That is very observant of you; I need to update the picture, thanks.
6) You simply inject a needle less syringe into the tube and squirt the vodka or sugar water. The tip of the syringe fits exactly into the little piece of tube in the feeding tube and makes a seal.
7) Currently FAMA (Freshwater And Marine Aquarium) magazine is in the process of reviewing it but it will probably take several more months before publication. I agree that I should get the Aquaripure to more people to review. As we continue to do well and grow I will definitely work towards that.
Thank you for all of your feedback, I will take it seriously. Feedback from customers like you is why the product is what it is today. I have made dozens of changes to the product design, website, and manual over the years thanks to customer feedback and this is why I enjoy such a high customer satisfaction rate today.
Kind Regards,
Second Query
Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions.
"You can leave the substrates baskets empty or put in more mechanical filters, just make sure you rinse or replace all mechanical filtration weekly or else they too will quickly become nitrate factories."
Your reply to my first question troubles me. I hardly need to attend to my canisters at all (maybe cleaning them every 3-4 months) which is why I like them in the first place. I think you are telling me that the stuff they would be pulling in and trapping mechanically would break down and create more nitrates that the Denitrator can apparently handle if the canisters are not cleaned on a regular (weekly) basis.
I understand that the time and effort this regular canister cleaning would entail is being offset by the time and effort saved by not doing as frequent water changes. I normally do 30% bi-weekly water changes now which I possibly could cut back on but I like cleaning the gravel on timely basis because the fish are messy anyways.
My nitrate levels hover around 20-30 and it would be great to get them at a sustained lower level. I was hoping that I could just add a Denitrator and leave my canisters entirely alone (using their current biological and mechanical filtering contents) and have the Denitrator remove the last (or almost all) of my remaining nitrates.
Why do you recommmend using only the Denitrator for biological filteting instead of as a supplemental biological filter?
I was really hoping for a solution that reduces my aquarium maintenance and does not increase it or switch one maintenance task for another.
Here is a link to a site selling Magclips http://www.drsfoster...fm?pcatid=19711 I highly recommend them as they attach securely and never wear out.
Second Response
It will greatly decrease the maintenance required. Honestly I never had canister filters and I had no idea they were any trouble at all to change or clean the media. I have always had easy access to my physical filter media and so it is very easy for me to clean or change it weekly. I always recommend changing or cleaning physical media weekly but no, it is not necessary in most cases. Perhaps I should change that wording to just say regularly. I would recommend cleaning them more than every 3-4 months though.
Kind Regards,
Third Query
Cleaning the canisters themselves is not hard, especially Eheims with their auto shutoff valves. It is a pain though because they are located in the cabinent under the tank and they have built in heaters which means the canisters are tied through cables to the tank (temperature probe and control) so I cannot just carry canisters to the sink (like non internal heater models).
You did not answer my question:
"Why do you recommmend using only the Denitrator for biological filteting instead of as a supplemental biological filter?"
Third Response
"Sorry, too much excess biological filtration can interfere with the function of the Aquaripure. The Aquaripure is a slow flow biological filter and needs at least some organic matter in the water column for the anaerobic bacteria to cycle and function properly. When a tank has a lot of biological filtration in relation to it's bioload all organic matter can very rapidly be broken down into nitrates and virtually none will remain in the water column. This sometimes happens in lightly stocked reef tanks and rarely in freshwater or fish only tanks. Note that the Aquaripure replaces other biological filtration and also adds an additional step of breaking down nitrates into gasses. A little other biological filtration is ok but it is not needed."
End of queries
So I am interpreting this to mean it is probably much more of an issue having other filtration in salt water reef tanks and probably would not be an issue for a freshwater tank. I agree that I would be leery of only having just a slow flow Denitrator filter on a large tank.
By the way for those actually looking for a API Nitrate Reductor 400 (smallest API model) filter I see they are on clearance at this link at a much reduced price (marked down half price from $140 to $70 US dollars but I not sure about shipping to Australia). http://www.bigalsonl...c...e=0&offset=
They DO NOT have Deniballs or Injection Power at this site but it is a great buy on the Nitrate Reductor 400 filter. I am not sure if this specific model is being phased out by API as it is no longer shown on the API web site.
I just added a low volume canister filter with a liter of Seachem De Nitrate and some Seachem Matrix Carbon in it today to my larger tank. It will take awhile for it to get going but hopefully I will see some kind of long term drop in my Nitrate levels.
Thanks again for your reply. I should let you know that while I have never been to Perth I have been to Australia (Melbourne, Canberra, Sydney) in years gone by and I am sorry to see all the wild fire damage...................
#106
jslayz
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- Forum Member Joined: 01-January 09
- Location:Ballajura
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Location: Ballajura
Posted 05 March 2009 - 10:19 PM
Thanks jcahow
Hey hows everyones Nitrate reductors going ??
Seriously looking at one of these for stability for my 6ftr.
J
Hey hows everyones Nitrate reductors going ??
Seriously looking at one of these for stability for my 6ftr.
J
#107
Sazabi
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- Forum Member Joined: 22-August 08
Posted 05 March 2009 - 10:38 PM
QUOTE (jslayz @ Mar 5 2009, 11:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Thanks jcahow
Hey hows everyones Nitrate reductors going ??
Seriously looking at one of these for stability for my 6ftr.
J
Hey hows everyones Nitrate reductors going ??
Seriously looking at one of these for stability for my 6ftr.
J
The one in the L number tank works fine, zero nitrate
The one in the peppie tank, same, zero nitrate
The tropheus tank 1, still got some nitrate but level is reducing
The tropheus tank 2, just started last week, will let you know
Overall, fantastic
#108
jslayz
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- Forum Member Joined: 01-January 09
- Location:Ballajura
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Location: Ballajura
Posted 07 March 2009 - 12:11 AM
Cool, glad to hear you are having luck with yours sazabi!
I'll keep saving then
Cheers for some feedback.
J
I'll keep saving then
Cheers for some feedback.
J
#109
Scat
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- Forum Member Joined: 26-March 06
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Location: Safety Bay
Posted 22 June 2009 - 09:46 PM
Hi
I need some advice with my denitrator please !
One of my 400lt units is fully established but has stopped putting water out, the pipes arent` blocked but when we unplug the unit its starts to flow again ? How long can the bacteria live for in these units when they arnt running ?
Thanks
Craig
I need some advice with my denitrator please !
One of my 400lt units is fully established but has stopped putting water out, the pipes arent` blocked but when we unplug the unit its starts to flow again ? How long can the bacteria live for in these units when they arnt running ?
Thanks
Craig
#110
Krystal
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- PCS Club Member
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Joined: 18-December 06
Posted 22 June 2009 - 10:00 PM
Did Oliver send you a pm last night?
If you tried those things in the pm already and to no avail then try swapping your units....you have 2x 400 units dont you?
Leave all of the hoses and everything in the tanks they are in and just swap the units themselves...if the other is working correctly, and if the one that is not in operation now works on the other tank, then theoretically there is a blockage in your hosing or taps.
Also if you take the head off of the one thats not in operation there will be a black pipe coming directly off the pump, approx 20mm in diameter, that connects into to a clear tube....make sure this is in position and not kinked at all.
The bacteria will last a few days one would assume....i have no defining answer on that one, sorry. If you get it working again just flush out all of the water that is in the unit before returning it to normal operation to rid any foul water.
If you tried those things in the pm already and to no avail then try swapping your units....you have 2x 400 units dont you?
Leave all of the hoses and everything in the tanks they are in and just swap the units themselves...if the other is working correctly, and if the one that is not in operation now works on the other tank, then theoretically there is a blockage in your hosing or taps.
Also if you take the head off of the one thats not in operation there will be a black pipe coming directly off the pump, approx 20mm in diameter, that connects into to a clear tube....make sure this is in position and not kinked at all.
The bacteria will last a few days one would assume....i have no defining answer on that one, sorry. If you get it working again just flush out all of the water that is in the unit before returning it to normal operation to rid any foul water.
#111
Cawdor
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- Admin
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Joined: 26-December 05
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Location: Byford
Posted 22 June 2009 - 10:09 PM
That's odd Craig. The units don't have a pump in them for pumping water in and out, it's only an internal pump that circulates the water inside the unit.
My guess would be that there is bits of slime/matter that get stuck on the outgoing hose when the internal pump runs. Once you turn it off, it dislodges and water flows in and out, powered by your canister.
You can take the top off the unit (hold your breath!), give it a clean and put it back. Also check for any solid matter that could block the outgoing hose.
The bacteria will survive as long as there is nutrition (demi balls) and nitrate (water). They should survive for a long as it takes to clean the head.
My guess would be that there is bits of slime/matter that get stuck on the outgoing hose when the internal pump runs. Once you turn it off, it dislodges and water flows in and out, powered by your canister.
You can take the top off the unit (hold your breath!), give it a clean and put it back. Also check for any solid matter that could block the outgoing hose.
The bacteria will survive as long as there is nutrition (demi balls) and nitrate (water). They should survive for a long as it takes to clean the head.
#112
Scat
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- Forum Member Joined: 26-March 06
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Location: Safety Bay
Posted 23 June 2009 - 09:24 PM
Hi,
Krystal i didnt recieve a pm but am playing around with these tommorow hopefully, worst case i can clean the whole filter out and start over hey ?
Thanks for your help guys !
Craig
Krystal i didnt recieve a pm but am playing around with these tommorow hopefully, worst case i can clean the whole filter out and start over hey ?
Thanks for your help guys !
Craig
#113
Krystal
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- PCS Club Member
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Joined: 18-December 06
Posted 23 June 2009 - 09:30 PM
PM Sent....Its all explained in there 
#114
Wet Dreams
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- PCS Club Member
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Joined: 15-October 08
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Location: Bunbury, WA
Posted 01 July 2010 - 02:31 PM
Old thread revival! haha
Just want to see how everyone's unit are still going?
Seriously considering one now that i can only water change once a fortnight.
Just want to see how everyone's unit are still going?
Seriously considering one now that i can only water change once a fortnight.
#115
Scat
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- Forum Member Joined: 26-March 06
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Location: Safety Bay
Posted 01 July 2010 - 04:55 PM
I have 5 of these units now and although they can be a bit fiddly on the odd occasion i love them
Cheers
Craig
Cheers
Craig
#116
theonetruepath
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- Forum Member Joined: 13-July 07
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Location: Floreat, Perth WA
Posted 02 July 2010 - 11:09 AM
Has anyone tried dumping in a cup or two of cheap old activated carbon instead of expensive deniballs?
#117
Cawdor
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- Admin
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Joined: 26-December 05
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Location: Byford
Posted 02 July 2010 - 02:32 PM
Mine is still running strong, although the tank it's on now is too large for it. It still makes an impact though, the nitrate readings are always lower than on the tank on top.
I went through cleaning some of the gunk out recently and it didn't really smell that bad.I haven't tried activated carbon but it's a good idea - if it worked as a carbon source then it would be much cheaper than deniballs.
I went through cleaning some of the gunk out recently and it didn't really smell that bad.I haven't tried activated carbon but it's a good idea - if it worked as a carbon source then it would be much cheaper than deniballs.
#118
Scat
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- Forum Member Joined: 26-March 06
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Location: Safety Bay
Posted 02 July 2010 - 04:41 PM
QUOTE
I went through cleaning some of the gunk out recently and it didn't really smell that bad
Did you have a cold or blocked nose at the time ? lol
Cheers
Craig
#119
sydad
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- Forum Member Joined: 31-October 04
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Location: Jandakot
Posted 03 July 2010 - 01:07 AM
QUOTE (theonetruepath @ Jul 2 2010, 11:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Has anyone tried dumping in a cup or two of cheap old activated carbon instead of expensive deniballs?
This is not likely to work, as elemental carbon is neither water soluble to a sufficient degree, nor is it subject to bacterial action. Deniballs on the other hand are basically cellulose, which while not significantly water soluble, is subject to bacterial degradation, and so can act as a carbon source under some circumstances.
Syd.
#120
Wet Dreams
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- PCS Club Member
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Joined: 15-October 08
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Location: Bunbury, WA
Posted 03 July 2010 - 03:41 PM
Cheers for that Craig and Tim, definately sounds like worth while investments!
Will be picking one up for myself very soon.
Will be picking one up for myself very soon.
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