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I Am Disappointed


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#1 In between tanks

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Posted 24 January 2016 - 04:35 PM

WHY ARE THE MIDLAND PET AND AQUARIUM CENTRE SELLING AND USING FEEDER FISH. I am very upset about this
I walked into the store today to find 2 small gold fish in one of there massive catfish tanks. And in others I found small tropical fish in one of the tanks one of these fish was a neon tetra
I walked around some more and found a tank that said feeders $2.50 or 10 for $20 these were the same type of gold fish that were in the massive catfish tank.

#2 Stormfyre

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Posted 24 January 2016 - 05:38 PM

I am not sure i see a problem here? In nature fish eat fish. Feeder fish have been used for decades.

 

It's like cows breed to eat, or chickens, or lettuce grown to eat? They are bred with the purpose of being food for those higher in the food chain.

 

What do you think they are going to feed that giant catfish and keep him busy with?



#3 malawiman85

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Posted 24 January 2016 - 05:44 PM

I understand some people dont like the practice but fish are what lots of other fish naturally eat. I keep a few predators that eat feeders... if they were still in the river they would be eating fish every day anyway. There is always the argument of using frozen fish instead... thats ok but it is just a dead fish too.
Most people feed brine shrimp or similar at some point to their ornamental fish, whats the difference?
If its about the fear of a feeders last minutes, I can assure you its not an issue for long.
Some people keep preds without live feeders but I prefer to give them anopportunity to exercise their instinct.
As I say I do understand your position, but to me its nature taking its course.
Most fish that get sold at a pet shop end up dying at the hands of hopeless or lazy fishkeepers anyway so it can be argued that due to the mortality rate/age of fish in the hobby that the hobby its self is cruel. Some would argue further and say that keeping fish in a glass box is cruel.
I dunno...

Edit: typo

Edited by malawiman85, 24 January 2016 - 08:08 PM.


#4 In between tanks

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Posted 24 January 2016 - 06:53 PM

Oh yeh so in the wild catfish eat goldfish seems legit

#5 Leichardti

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Posted 24 January 2016 - 07:08 PM

You'd still be complaining if they were getting fed fish they eat naturally... They're fed goldfish as it's the fish eating fish part thats natural + they're cheap and common.



#6 Westie

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Posted 24 January 2016 - 08:04 PM

if you have a problem with a shop selling feeders, why not speak to the shop owner about it? 

#7 malawiman85

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Posted 24 January 2016 - 08:14 PM

Oh yeh so in the wild catfish eat goldfish seems legit


Leichardti is 100% right so I wont bother responding.

Its not just the store you mentioned. All LFS and chain stores sell feeders as does livefish.com.au. some openly call them feeders, some are more discreet.

Kalis brothers in Leederville sell live feeders too... yabbies and crayfish are sold live... for human consumption. I choose not to boil my feeders alive which to me makes the practice of using feeders more humane than eating crayfish.

#8 Riggers

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Posted 24 January 2016 - 09:10 PM

its just nature, big fish eat smaller fish...

#9 bigjohnnofish

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Posted 25 January 2016 - 12:12 AM

if your around mundaring i'll give you a demonstration.... its very quick.... although i'll use guppies or cichlids :)


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#10 bigjohnnofish

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Posted 25 January 2016 - 12:21 AM

Oh yeh so in the wild catfish eat goldfish seems legit

 

believe me if the redtail catfish you saw at midland lived in the river or a lake full of goldfish it would be eating them... not sure whats worse here introducing goldfish or the catfish to eat them :)



#11 BengaBoy

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Posted 25 January 2016 - 07:27 AM

that goldfish is probably going to survive longer in that tank with the catfish than in some fishbowl in finds itself in when it goes out the door in a bag.

have you ever stopped to think how come lfs sell so many goldfish?



#12 sandgroper

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Posted 25 January 2016 - 09:02 AM

Goldfish are bullet proof, they just live inside the catfish happily swimming around tickling the insides of the catty. Just keep telling yourself that and all will be fine with the universe.



#13 Buccal

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Posted 25 January 2016 - 10:23 AM

You'd probably cry seeing my practices (which are needed to maintain quality and value).

By the way FINALLY,,,,, world authorities are now getting onto some Asian countries, now that westerners are trying their dog meat in restaurants,
They string a live dog up in a tree and slowly beat it to death, kicking, whacking with stick, punching, karate moves.
They do this for a good ten minutes while the dog is making blood curdling sqeeuals and whimpering with load crying shreaks.
Tears were instant steaming from my face, and the strong feeing of myself wanting to kill the people doing this was incredible.
They believe stressing the animal makes the flesh taste better,,,, as we know total poppy cok.

In another place that Malcom Douglas documented on, they round up thousands of dolphins into a small bay and run a net behind them to stop them getting out.
In knee deep water the people go stabbing the whole day with cheap spears, taking up to twenty head stabs to kill, the entire bay blood red and the screaming from these creatures again tears and I was shaking to see it.

I'm not gettin started on the seals,, I have many others to.

Civilized life as you know it in front of your eyes is not how everything is in the world.
Our civil western ways are only a fraction in the world percentage,, majority of people in this world maybe 80% + are animalistic with no feeling and admiration for each life of anything, no matter how big or small.

It's a horrible world out there,,,, but keeping things in perspective always helps to stay grounded.

#14 sandgroper

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Posted 25 January 2016 - 02:26 PM

Yep, for every good person there's a hundred BASTARDS.



#15 Peckoltia

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Posted 25 January 2016 - 03:03 PM

Goldfish are also full of thiaminase, the enzyme that breaks down vitamin B1 (thiamine). As far as I know all vitamin B's convert carbohydrates into sugars that are used as energy. Goldfish are also full of fat, which will contribute to fatty liver disease if fed in large amounts. I have more of an issue with predators being fed large volumes of goldfish because of these two reasons (promotes poor health to the predator consuming the goldfish). There is also the added risk of introducing pathogens.

 

I actually had a chat to the bloke running the fish room at Midland last week (nice kid, I forget his name), and he mentioned that the Wallago and the RTC are fed exclusively on feeders - which wouldn't be cheap. In my opinion there is no need to feed a RTC live foods as they will readily accept prepared foods. This is mostly done for the 'pleasure' of the keeper or when someone has a surplus of 'junk fish'. I also find there is a definite potential to have large fish injure themselves when chasing down live fish. To me it makes no sense to feed live foods, but that is just my fish keeping philosophy and I certainly wouldn't chastise another keeper for doing so.

 

The Wallago on the other hand, has always been a fussy feeder. I know this, because it used to be my fish about 10 years ago. I sold it to the original owner of Midland (Gary) about 10 years ago, when it was about 45cm - I tried everything with this fish. It is the only fish I could not convert off live foods. The fact that this fish has survived for 10 + years in captivity being fed only live foods contradicts what I have previously stated. I put this down to a bit of good luck, and would be the exception and not the norm.

 

It can be difficult at times to be a responsible and informed fish keeper. Feeding live foods to me is not an ethical debate, it is a debate on fish keeping practices and the longevity of captive animals. When it comes to ethics, there are other things that plague my mind more than the plight of the hapless goldfish, these include; wild caught fish (especially fish caught in very high numbers) - boggles my mind how many clown loaches must have been collected from the wild in the last 50 years (I know some are farmed these days) and feeding prepared foods like pellets - where does all the protein found in these foods come from? Disregarding prepared foods whose proteins are derived from plants and terrestrial animals. Where does all the krill and other fish used in these products come from? The Ocean. These resources leave the ocean and enter out fish tanks, reducing the overall biomass of the worlds oceans. Feeding a few goldfish to some predatory fish is cannon fodder at the end of the day.

 

Alex



#16 shayne

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Posted 25 January 2016 - 06:26 PM

I called in there last week,I believe the feeders to be rosy barbs. I breed and use them myself for feeders along with shrimp and endlers. Just an occasional treat for some fish but i have one of two murray cod that has refused to be to be weaned onto pellets. I have left it hungry a couple of times until i'm afraid for its health but unlike the other it just keeps refusing pellets i guess i will just have to ramp up the production.Good info on the goldfish thanks Alex i was considering using :ph34r:  some of the goldfish out of the tanks here dedicated to my grandkids. Not a healthy move hey?



#17 Buccal

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Posted 25 January 2016 - 09:42 PM

Barbs, guppy and platys are all full of thiaminase also.
Prawn is heavily packed with thiaminase.
Thiaminase completely disappears through cooking the meat.
But nutrients are lost when cooked and becomes useless,,,, for humans, we eat such a range and a lot of foods, losing nutrition from cooking is nothing.

My first ray ever I lost to thiaminase poisoning,, fed it entirely banana prawns.

#18 bigjohnnofish

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Posted 25 January 2016 - 11:57 PM

I called in there last week,I believe the feeders to be rosy barbs. I breed and use them myself for feeders along with shrimp and endlers. Just an occasional treat for some fish but i have one of two murray cod that has refused to be to be weaned onto pellets. I have left it hungry a couple of times until i'm afraid for its health but unlike the other it just keeps refusing pellets i guess i will just have to ramp up the production.Good info on the goldfish thanks Alex i was considering using :ph34r:  some of the goldfish out of the tanks here dedicated to my grandkids. Not a healthy move hey?

 

my cod was the same for a long time... prob cause its first 12 months of life it was fed almost unlimited guppies... but have got it eating whitebait now too... snubs its nose at any kind of pellet... snubs its nose at a guppy if its dead most times..... loves little cichlids too nom nom nom....



#19 bigjohnnofish

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Posted 26 January 2016 - 12:21 AM

 

I actually had a chat to the bloke running the fish room at Midland last week (nice kid, I forget his name), and he mentioned that the Wallago and the RTC are fed exclusively on feeders - which wouldn't be cheap. In my opinion there is no need to feed a RTC live foods as they will readily accept prepared foods. This is mostly done for the 'pleasure' of the keeper or when someone has a surplus of 'junk fish'. I also find there is a definite potential to have large fish injure themselves when chasing down live fish. To me it makes no sense to feed live foods, but that is just my fish keeping philosophy and I certainly wouldn't chastise another keeper for doing so.

 

Alex

 

i remember gary - had midland pumping years ago... he bought the rtc that is still currently in midland... i think its the one that came over from the other shop too... so im only guessing/estimating that the rtc is between 15-20 years old.... as far as i know it has never really been fed dry food at all... although it is smaller than it should be for that age (in my opinion) it is still very active and appears very healthy as well... so maybe the diet of goldfish isnt as bad as we think... perhaps it needs a fair amount of fat in its diet... i have been feeding it excess mystery snails also for last 7-8 years when i visit the shop.... it goes nuts over them... grabs them and smashes them open in its jaws and spits out the broken shell through its gills and mouth.... crazy really my rtc wont touch snails at all... it is definitely a live fish eater but does take frozen fish also.... loves brasilliensis lol :)



#20 Buccal

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Posted 26 January 2016 - 09:27 AM

Goldfish diet is as bad as what's suspected because deaths have occurred in relation to.
But scavenger catfish that grow massive sizes are likely able to stomach it without much of a hitch.
As they have adapted to eating any pungent crap fallen to the waters bottom including land based critters.
Scavengers always tend to be less specialized.




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