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I Am Disappointed


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#21 Buccal

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Posted 26 January 2016 - 09:43 AM


And just adding onto topic of thiaminase, it actually becomes stored in the body as a nutrient but has no benefit.
Thiaminase goes into the fish instead of the very valuable thiamine which is a very important intake that nourishes a healthy working metabolism.
So uptake of thiaminase actually blocks out thiamine,,,,, and once the scales tip to more thiaminase, it's irriversable and is the reason for the mysterious fin curl deaths on rays.
Thiaminase is very present in nature and fish on occasion do die in the wild from this.
Vegetable matter counteracts thiaminase to be reduced to safer levels.
Obviously predatory fish are the ones most suseptable but prey gut loaded with vegetable matter is enough to counteract it.
Stingrays actually eat small amounts of old dead leaf rotting remains from trees above fallen into water,,, which counter acts it.

Certain species, both fresh and salt but mostly salt contain more thiaminase than others.
If a Google search is done List of fish that contain thiaminase and ones that don't..... Will show you.
In general white flesh fish are safest, with Oreochromis species most valued as a raw feeding food having no count.
White bait is very safe, where as blue bait, sardines and mules are packed with it.,,, moluscs bivalves are riddled with it as with prawns.

I obtained most my knowledge on this from lengthy PDF's on focused penguin breeding studies.

#22 Delapool

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Posted 26 January 2016 - 10:36 AM

Well I'm looking through the tropical section now and not seeing too many issues. My preference is to buy fish from Easter onwards when there is cooler weather and tap water has settled down again. <br /><br /><br />Craig.
PS free foam boxes in store if anyone needs some. <br /><br /><br />Craig.

#23 malawiman85

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Posted 26 January 2016 - 10:38 AM

Been a month or so since I was last at this particular store and I thought the general condition of fish was as good as anywhere else in town. Im sure I saw a deady or two but go to any LFS you will see that.
Me being me, I took particular attention of their natives for sale and their TB's. All the natives I looked at were fine, I would have no problem buying them. The TB's looked outstanding.
You may be right, fish might have looked crap (fish could have had a rough time in transport or any number of things) but last time I was there they were all sweet.

#24 Peckoltia

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Posted 26 January 2016 - 01:09 PM

I called in there last week,I believe the feeders to be rosy barbs. I breed and use them myself for feeders along with shrimp and endlers. Just an occasional treat for some fish but i have one of two murray cod that has refused to be to be weaned onto pellets. I have left it hungry a couple of times until i'm afraid for its health but unlike the other it just keeps refusing pellets i guess i will just have to ramp up the production.Good info on the goldfish thanks Alex i was considering using :ph34r:  some of the goldfish out of the tanks here dedicated to my grandkids. Not a healthy move hey?

 

I prefer not to use feeders at all. But if you are supplementing with goldfish as part of a balanced diet, then you will most likely not see any ill effects. The issue then becomes one of introduced pathogens.

 

 

Goldfish diet is as bad as what's suspected because deaths have occurred in relation to.
But scavenger catfish that grow massive sizes are likely able to stomach it without much of a hitch.
As they have adapted to eating any pungent crap fallen to the waters bottom including land based critters.
Scavengers always tend to be less specialized.

 

I agree with this. But it depends on what we are talking about, wild fish or captive animals? I agree that scavengers like many of the large 'predatory' catfish should suffer no ill effects from thiaminase in their natural environment. This would be because they eat such a varied diet. Thiaminase is the enzyme that breaks down thiamine, thiamine being the substrate. Thiaminase and all enzymes for that matter have one use/goal and one only, that is the break down their substrate, which in this case is thiamine (B1). So if vitamin B1 is in abundance, and thiaminase is limited, then their will always be a surplus of vitamin B1 (Thiamine), so thiaminase will have no ill effect on the animal. If that animal is in the wild, and a scavenger its diet will be varied (multiple sources of B1) so if thiaminase is limited then not all vitamin B1 will be broken down as all the available thiaminase will be used (thiaminase is limited).

 

In a captive situation it is different as there isn't a plethora of other food sources to derive vitamin B1 from - and there for thiaminase would pose a much greater risk. 



#25 Delapool

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Posted 26 January 2016 - 03:09 PM

Always worth asking or pointing out dubious tanks I think. I've very rarely done so and I know they quarantine but no harm I've found in a talk. <br /><br /><br />Craig.
Ps I don't know what is going on with Tapatalk. Inserts extra text I don't want and can't edit. Grrr.<br /><br /><br />Craig.

#26 Buccal

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Posted 26 January 2016 - 09:54 PM

There are deaths in the wild caused by thiaminase, yes there are multiple sources of food which keeps down the occurance or lowers lowers probability of over consumption.
But as in some documentation I've read, there are certain seasonal food shortages and the only foods avaliable at the time are in the higher probability of thiaminase levels.
The typical farmed fish shipped in from over seas are usually filled with thiaminase, as the practices done by the breeders somehow compounds the levels in fish.

Thiaminase is a relatively new finding and only really talked of from 8 or so years ago.
I myself only come across it roughly 4 years ago,,, when my first ray ever I owned died of fin curl after 100% diet of prawn.

It's not a problem that many people will have to deal with.
But if high amounts of raw foods are fed,, then it's worth a thought.




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