116 replies to this topic

[Buccal]

"...everyone now only looks after themselves."
Like guys that own expensive koi arguing against the use of the virus... thats stuffing hilarious!

I was re-reading this and thought I'd respond, just because the stuffing hilarious bit, hah ha,,, your comment implies that there is hidden agenda, at the same time I do know that your pro-native, so to speak,, there is no hidden agenda I can assure you,,, I just look around some places in the world with water bodies scarily stuffed right up,, where humans impact hard,, river systems back in time, (at time of human settlements through out the world forming claimed continents),,,,, where the primary and very diverse resources supported the beginning of human population,,, typically, humans thrash it do death as they colonise, spread and sprawl,,, ever so seeming to follow the lush bush and nature and ripping it out,, these days the whole lot is bull dosed and peeled back to put the underground infrastructure in and land fill back over and sometimes terraced.
People washing their cars in Balga, as well as fertilizing and what ever else in the late 90's has excess of these chemical waiste delivered into the ground,, which actually heads towards the swan river in a underground artery water flow, then makes it out IN the river.
People just don't know this,,,

If Koi aren't actually taking anything away from the natives AS IS IN TODAYS STATE of condition, then they can only be a benefit, buy filling the missing gaps in the ecosystem that works better with rather than without.
You all go on about the predatory skills and sheer crazy savagery,,, if you know koi, they are week as piss,, no one can tell me the koi disrupt native breeding grounds, they may have, but not to impact.
The natives wouldn't give them a chance,,, the native species were well in trouble before koi got about.
There were badly effected inland systems in the past effected buy koi or carp, (same thing), but a lot of these were subject to drying out.

See, no hidden agenda,,,, so should I feel insulted ??? Many people likely would,, but me, nah all good,,, just a response, that's all

[malawiman85]

The gaps are largely due to carp though Buccal.

Yes native species were in trouble before carp were running amok but only due to unregulated agriculture and commercial fishing. The rivers dont sustain commercial fishing any more. The native species in our rivers do spawn and they do recruit but the impact of carp on eggs and larvae is out of this world. Knock carp off and some smaller species that are being out competed by carp can thrive and are a better food source for the preds. The stuffed rivers you reference around the world include some of our very own and some of the biggest impacts on our stuffed rivers is carp. The dirty rotten feckers need to go!

[Poncho]

I understood that the main impact carp have on native fish populations is caused by habitat modification. Carp sift through and stir up sediment, dramatically increasing turbidity, sediments smother aquatic plants and kill them off and the habitat is transformed into one that does not support native fish but does support dirty water species. It's this behaviour that had Fisheries and Swan River Trust really worried about the brasiliensis in the Swan when we met with them a few years back because of the common name Eartheater. I'm not convinced they've measured any real impact of the brasiliensis on the river ecosystem - just annoys people that they are present, like dandelions in your lawn - but would be keen to hear your opinion on that James.

 

I think the problem Den has illustrated is understated here but easily resolved. You can't possibly clean up a whole river system after a mass fish death as what is being imagined here. You can clean up areas of the river system though and focus your efforts on key areas. These key areas might be prime habitat for rare native fish, or popular recreation areas for river communities. By managing nodes along the river you temporarily sacrifice large reaches but over time you increase condition and join the dots together. It's a long term solution as opposed to a silver bullet. 

 

The thing that will be required in the Murray Darling with the carp deaths is to reinstate conditions more like natural river flows. A healthy river is able to flush nutrient and sediment into the ocean in order to help maintain good water quality. It's been some time since the Murray was able to do this - Adelaide has to look for alternative water sources as the river does not flow to them constantly anymore . If they aren't already, the government need to consider increasing the environmental water flows. This would be a political minefield as the irrigation farmers in the Riverina district (Eastern Australia's foodbowl) are a strong and influential lobby group and if you mention tighter water allocations in that area, you better have an armed escort with you.

 

Not that I've followed this issue outside of this thread, but I haven't heard any strategy for managing these foreseen impacts - are they going to increase environmental water flows, which areas are they going to be cleaning up, what's the funding strategy? If they have these answers then they haven't been promoted well and it makes the whole initiative sound poorly thought out or at least not something that govt are fully committed to. I worry that the virus gets released, we have all these impacts and there is no solution as to what to do next. "Sorry Mildura we don't have any money to clean up the mess we made so you'll have to suffer in your jocks!!!"

 

I've also heard news lately of different herpes virus strains affecting different animals. The latest one was herpes affecting turtles. I don't really follow or have interest for the details of this carp virus but the average joe is going connect all the other herpes talk with these other strains. It's really disconcerting and sounds like a lot more work is required before a release is appropriate.

[bigjohnnofish]

 and some of the biggest impacts on our stuffed rivers is carp. The dirty rotten feckers need to go!

 

well koi pox isnt gonna do that - they have already said there is going to be immunity and in a few years time they could well be back to where it is now but with a herpes virus on the loose... and a whole new line of immune fish....

 

someone should think about exporting koi/carp to other countries for food sources... as we are spoilt for sea food and no-ones really keen on eating them especially after a koi pox is released....

[Buccal]

The gaps are largely due to carp though Buccal.
Yes native species were in trouble before carp were running amok but only due to unregulated agriculture and commercial fishing. The rivers dont sustain commercial fishing any more. The native species in our rivers do spawn and they do recruit but the impact of carp on eggs and larvae is out of this world. Knock carp off and some smaller species that are being out competed by carp can thrive and are a better food source for the preds. The stuffed rivers you reference around the world include some of our very own and some of the biggest impacts on our stuffed rivers is carp. The dirty rotten feckers need to go!

well, if this does happen, I'll be expecting to see healthy numbers of all native species sustained,,, As most of us know, fish breed in huge numbers, and realistically, if the conditions are right they will fast recolonize and recover fast.

We all have to admit and face facts the world is changing,,,, as stable as the ocean is, there are large changes taking place, and we are seeing it in the oceans,, specie numbers and balances, once again, particular years when conditions are right, spawn success rate is much higher,,,,, but we are no longer getting enough good years for them,, it seems to get further and further apart,, with strange happens, for example, three weeks of huge salmon in the Two Rocks marina.
Inland water bodies are smaller micro systems which are much more suseptable or delicate to change,,, if we are seeing it in our oceans, it can't be to long until joining rivers and triburatories and even detached water bodies see impact of environmental change.
I believe all these and the over populating human density that just keeps growing and at the same time compacting,,, every time we make a move to conserve, it's not really working in the way we think,, it still gets lost in the never ending multiplication of humans...... This deep impact outcome is totally what I expect.

Back in the day, actual pressures of commercial was actually sustainable to much degree, regarding that the stocks were replenishing very well,,, it's just that now the species need looking after to survive, we now can't commercial fish it,,, the destruction isn't really due to commercial fishing,,, but climate change.

Edited by Buccal, 13 July 2016 - 08:01 PM.

[Buccal]

I understood that the main impact carp have on native fish populations is caused by habitat modification. Carp sift through and stir up sediment, dramatically increasing turbidity, sediments smother aquatic plants and kill them off and the habitat is transformed into one that does not support native fish but does support dirty water species. It's this behaviour that had Fisheries and Swan River Trust really worried about the brasiliensis in the Swan when we met with them a few years back because of the common name Eartheater. I'm not convinced they've measured any real impact of the brasiliensis on the river ecosystem - just annoys people that they are present, like dandelions in your lawn - but would be keen to hear your opinion on that James.
 
I think the problem Den has illustrated is understated here but easily resolved. You can't possibly clean up a whole river system after a mass fish death as what is being imagined here. You can clean up areas of the river system though and focus your efforts on key areas. These key areas might be prime habitat for rare native fish, or popular recreation areas for river communities. By managing nodes along the river you temporarily sacrifice large reaches but over time you increase condition and join the dots together. It's a long term solution as opposed to a silver bullet. 
 
The thing that will be required in the Murray Darling with the carp deaths is to reinstate conditions more like natural river flows. A healthy river is able to flush nutrient and sediment into the ocean in order to help maintain good water quality. It's been some time since the Murray was able to do this - Adelaide has to look for alternative water sources as the river does not flow to them constantly anymore . If they aren't already, the government need to consider increasing the environmental water flows. This would be a political minefield as the irrigation farmers in the Riverina district (Eastern Australia's foodbowl) are a strong and influential lobby group and if you mention tighter water allocations in that area, you better have an armed escort with you.
 
Not that I've followed this issue outside of this thread, but I haven't heard any strategy for managing these foreseen impacts - are they going to increase environmental water flows, which areas are they going to be cleaning up, what's the funding strategy? If they have these answers then they haven't been promoted well and it makes the whole initiative sound poorly thought out or at least not something that govt are fully committed to. I worry that the virus gets released, we have all these impacts and there is no solution as to what to do next. "Sorry Mildura we don't have any money to clean up the mess we made so you'll have to suffer in your jocks!!!"
 
I've also heard news lately of different herpes virus strains affecting different animals. The latest one was herpes affecting turtles. I don't really follow or have interest for the details of this carp virus but the average joe is going connect all the other herpes talk with these other strains. It's really disconcerting and sounds like a lot more work is required before a release is appropriate.

A whole string of frog species lost or in redline stage throughout much of earths tropical regions also !!
And dudes want to spread all different species of this crap around,, only person I'd trust is God,,, and god damn it, I don't even believe in God.

[keleherr]

 

No offense James, Im not sure if you are disagreeing with me? because what you wrote supports most of my points;

 

1. What you said basically affirms what I said, it wont eradicate them, your making a guess that the numbers will remain impacted over time, but some scientists are arguing that you will remove the young carp which have become an important food source for some natives and by just leaving adult carp you could make the problem even worse for native fish. So even if you lower carp numbers this way you could decimate whats left of some native species, not just my opinion, there are scientists out there saying the same thing.

 

2. No point removing carp if your still going to allow chemicals and livestock destroy the waterways, natives cant recover in damaged waterways with or without carp present.

 

3. With your credentials I dont have to tell you that 30 years is a tiny window for an evolution study, and how many people are seriously looking at it? and look at those temp ranges, you will be looking at a stinking, rotting, polluted river nightmare every year or so, as numbers build up, with massive die offs as seasonal temps fluctuate, that could be super expensive to clean up every year and also completely ruin the rivers for people and all the native fish, its not just me thinking this, I have heard chatter about this by concerned scientists in the media.

 

4. There is a heap of herpes viruses being found lately, I just heard 2 new reports lately, one about sea turtles with a herpes strain, I dont want another herpes strain released here in our water thanks.

 

Cheers
Den

This argument seems to have shifted focus from spreading to people to it won’t fix it and will make the water stinky. It won’t completely remove koi but it will but it will help immensely, I’ll get back to that later. Immunity isn’t passed on genetically so yes the few adults that do survive will persist but won’t produce immune off spring. Initially yes there will be mass death but you will be amazed how fast the bacteria work etc. The fish kills that happen down south are huge but within a few weeks you wouldn’t even know it happened. Will it make the river crash? No it will hang on. Outbreaks have happened all over the world and the ecosystems haven’t collapsed. After the initial release you’re not going to have the same biomass turn up dead each year! The time between carp spawning and the virus kicking into full swing is not long. So there will be a bunch of fry to fingerlings karking it, you will hardly notice. Also if you knock off most the population they will produce a comparatively minuscule number of fry making the “die offs” unnoticeable. So there won’t be a smelly river full of dead fish on a yearly basis that will cost money to clean up.

Given the economic impact it has had on carp fisheries overseas it has had a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuge amount of time, money and resources spent on it, different cause but same knowledge sought.

Thirty years is a tiny window for an evolution study for higher order organisms but in terms of a virus that is billions of generations, also the sheer scale it has occurred on and not morphed demonstrates its stability. If it became zoonotic that would be the equivalent of a fish mutating into a dog. By the time that happens I’m sure the human race would have been wiped out or wiped themselves out some other way.

The turtle herpes strain has been around for a long time but like most things goes unnoticed till the media gets a hold of it. Outbreaks frequently happen after a cyclone when there isn’t much food and they get run down opening them up to infection, kinda like the ones people get on their mouths.

 

One thing I’ve noticed the naysays keep saying is IN THE MEDIA. The people who twist their info to get a good story are a reputable source of info yet a scientist working on something is not a reliable source? I’ve dealt with the media before and they twisted words like you wouldn’t believe and draw the most imaginative conclusion to what you say. There was a story on the news here on koi in the rivers a while ago. They were told in high numbers they can cause water quality issues but this turned into they are decimating native fish predating on them.

 

If Koi aren't actually taking anything away from the natives AS IS IN TODAYS STATE of condition, then they can only be a benefit, buy filling the missing gaps in the ecosystem that works better with rather than without.
You all go on about the predatory skills and sheer crazy savagery,,, if you know koi, they are week as piss,, no one can tell me the koi disrupt native breeding grounds, they may have, but not to impact.
The natives wouldn't give them a chance,,, the native species were well in trouble before koi got about.
There were badly effected inland systems in the past effected buy koi or carp, (same thing), but a lot of these were subject to drying out.
 

Koi have exacerbated our stuff ups and make any attempts to rectify them negligible. They eat away banks and stir up the bottom sediment which indirectly affects native fish. This means all the crap we have pumped in can’t settle into the substrate and remains in the water column causing water quality issues and as mentioned settles on aquatic veg killing it off. So you clean up your act and stop crap going into the water or reduce it but it makes no difference. The banks get eaten away and this screws up the riparian veg. You plant more or try to remediate sections but it gets eaten away again. So you now have a river with minimal riparian or aquatic veg meaning a number of native species have lost their breeding/feeding/hiding habitat and you have lost massive nutrient filter. Effectively carp have aided in creating an ideal habitat for themselves. Of course just removing carp alone won’t “fix” the river but it is a massive step forward to getting it there.

 

I understood that the main impact carp have on native fish populations is caused by habitat modification. Carp sift through and stir up sediment, dramatically increasing turbidity, sediments smother aquatic plants and kill them off and the habitat is transformed into one that does not support native fish but does support dirty water species. It's this behaviour that had Fisheries and Swan River Trust really worried about the brasiliensis in the Swan when we met with them a few years back because of the common name Eartheater. I'm not convinced they've measured any real impact of the brasiliensis on the river ecosystem - just annoys people that they are present, like dandelions in your lawn - but would be keen to hear your opinion on that James.

Not much has been done, since they started popping up everywhere the ball kinda got dropped. Caught them in huge number last year in the swan so I guess we will see. If anything I think they might compete for space.

[Buccal]

^^^^^ Kind of speaking as if there's more to save than what there actually is or actually can.
Correct, the offspring aren't immune as a tested outcome,,,,,, buuuuut, the constant numbers of small fry being subjected to the virus, will eventually through probability see a few new fry that resist or cope with the virus a bit better,,, the natural processes of probability will be at constant play.....
The way these virus's adapt and change over time,, these simple organisms adapt much more quicker and mutate or evolve to suit their surroundings as the great survivors, and destroyers for that matter.

[Den]

This argument seems to have shifted focus from spreading to people to it won’t fix it and will make the water stinky.

 

 

Hi James, I didnt try to change the argument, I addressed all your points in same order, but I did emphasise the constant clean up issue. Barney rubble will be retired in a few years with his big politicians tax free pension and all his other benefits and we hard working tax payers will be footing the cleanup bill for the rest of our lives for his mistake. 

 

Scientific estimates I read is that at least 60% of the population will be back within 10 years with various levels of immunity to the virus.

 

So it seems we have 2 choices;

 

1. We can have a carp population thats virus infected, with horrible sores and deformities, and seasonal mass die offs, polluting waterways.

2. We can have a carp population thats healthy.

 

Its a democracy, and I vote number 2.

 

Thanks.

[Buccal]

Your dog bolts into lake, dies of a brain infection due to all sorts of crazies in the ear hole,,, what about kids,, they going to fence all treated areas if they can't retrieve it all on a constant basis ? Even in change of government ?,,, oh jeez.

[bigjohnnofish]

im no scientist studying genetics but in my experience if you have 2 adult fish that are immune to a virus its because they possess a different gene that acts differently to protect the fish... from my knowledge this gene is more than likely to be passed on to their offspring.... especially if both parents are immune... i can understand if only one parent has this gene the chances of passing it on diminish substantially....

[Buccal]

Yes Johnno, 100% correct,, after all,, those small percentage of big resistant ones use to be babies to,, they simply have some type of genetical disposition to dodge the virus, or receive it with a softer blow,,, this in its self tells me there are particular individuals less suseptable, and typically the species slowly build resistance.
Remember when the scientists swore black and blue that it was totally impossible for humans to contract mad cow disease ??? Lol.

[Peckoltia]

Edited by Peckoltia, 16 July 2016 - 07:24 PM.

[keleherr]

 

Hi James, I didnt try to change the argument, I addressed all your points in same order, but I did emphasise the constant clean up issue. Barney rubble will be retired in a few years with his big politicians tax free pension and all his other benefits and we hard working tax payers will be footing the cleanup bill for the rest of our lives for his mistake. 

 

Scientific estimates I read is that at least 60% of the population will be back within 10 years with various levels of immunity to the virus.

 

So it seems we have 2 choices;

 

1. We can have a carp population thats virus infected, with horrible sores and deformities, and seasonal mass die offs, polluting waterways.

2. We can have a carp population thats healthy.

 

Its a democracy, and I vote number 2.

 

Thanks.

These scientist that are making these comments wouldn't happen to be getting a lot of their current funding from carp control or investigation would they?

There will be an initial mass die off but it won't be seasonal. You knock off 90% how will the following year have a mass die off with a 10th remaining?

I'm indifferent to the whole thing and respect peoples choice on where they choose to side. I'm just responding to some of the rash and inaccurate statements.

 

Your dog bolts into lake, dies of a brain infection due to all sorts of crazies in the ear hole,,, what about kids,, they going to fence all treated areas if they can't retrieve it all on a constant basis ? Even in change of government ?,,, oh jeez.

You mean meningitis, meningococcal and the hundreds of other things that already exist in most freshwater water bodies? As I said in an earlier post it is impossible for this virus to survive in the human body. The proteins that make it up are unstable and dissociate at temps in the human body. Its like boiling a piece of meat, it falls apart. But what about mutation.......this is like a fish turning into a dog, almost every protein it is made up of would need to change into something completely different to be stable and function at those temps. So there is no need for a fence unless it is on private property and over 30cm or whatever the regs are deep.

 

 

Yes Johnno, 100% correct,, after all,, those small percentage of big resistant ones use to be babies to,, they simply have some type of genetical disposition to dodge the virus, or receive it with a softer blow,,, this in its self tells me there are particular individuals less suseptable, and typically the species slowly build resistance.
Remember when the scientists swore black and blue that it was totally impossible for humans to contract mad cow disease ??? Lol.

No, it doesn't work like that immunity is generally developed on an individual basis and instance. If it were wouldn't there be a resistant strain of carp all over the world where carp are of economic importance? here is an example: Your parents likely got chicken pox as children, beat the virus, developed immunity, grew up, met and made you. Did you to get chicken pox as a child like almost every child?  which is also in the herpes family.

The short way of how it works is your immune system recognizes something foreign in your body and targets it. While doing this is also creates a memory (antibodies) that recognize the surface of a pathogen so in the future is able to rid or control the virus before it can proliferate. These memories aren't imprinted within the genome or passed on in the swimmers or egg. With carp this virus has mechanisms to hide for a bit and is virulent to this species usually killing the host before its immune system knows what is going on. If a carp cops a low dose it may have time to develop some resistance. Or if it has pick up a matching antigen along the line.

 

That was the UK government that said it was ok, probably being directed by scientist yes. But they didn't even know what they were looking at at the time. Based on the symptoms they just assumed it was the cow version scrapie, a sheep disease, which can't be passed on which was a massive over site. In this instance they at least know what they are dealing with, its structure and how it works.

[Buccal]

These scientist that are making these comments wouldn't happen to be getting a lot of their current funding from carp control or investigation would they?
There will be an initial mass die off but it won't be seasonal. You knock off 90% how will the following year have a mass die off with a 10th remaining?
I'm indifferent to the whole thing and respect peoples choice on where they choose to side. I'm just responding to some of the rash and inaccurate statements.
 

You mean meningitis, meningococcal and the hundreds of other things that already exist in most freshwater water bodies? As I said in an earlier post it is impossible for this virus to survive in the human body. The proteins that make it up are unstable and dissociate at temps in the human body. Its like boiling a piece of meat, it falls apart. But what about mutation.......this is like a fish turning into a dog, almost every protein it is made up of would need to change into something completely different to be stable and function at those temps. So there is no need for a fence unless it is on private property and over 30cm or whatever the regs are deep.
 
 

No, it doesn't work like that immunity is generally developed on an individual basis and instance. If it were wouldn't there be a resistant strain of carp all over the world where carp are of economic importance? here is an example: Your parents likely got chicken pox as children, beat the virus, developed immunity, grew up, met and made you. Did you to get chicken pox as a child like almost every child?  which is also in the herpes family.
The short way of how it works is your immune system recognizes something foreign in your body and targets it. While doing this is also creates a memory (antibodies) that recognize the surface of a pathogen so in the future is able to rid or control the virus before it can proliferate. These memories aren't imprinted within the genome or passed on in the swimmers or egg. With carp this virus has mechanisms to hide for a bit and is virulent to this species usually killing the host before its immune system knows what is going on. If a carp cops a low dose it may have time to develop some resistance. Or if it has pick up a matching antigen along the line.
 
That was the UK government that said it was ok, probably being directed by scientist yes. But they didn't even know what they were looking at at the time. Based on the symptoms they just assumed it was the cow version scrapie, a sheep disease, which can't be passed on which was a massive over site. In this instance they at least know what they are dealing with, its structure and how it works.

you seemed to quote me as a unknowledgeable noob,, but you read my posts wrong which I'm Suprised at.
You said the disease doesn't effect human,, well I know that,, it's the poo water after the treatment full of dead fish that leads to a host of multiple secondary diseases causing for example ear infection spreading to the brain. Jesus, a little insulting that you thought that I thought it could spread to humans like that. Lol,, you may be better than everyone else, but not that much better.
Then you said, 'no it doesn't work like that, I immunity is Generally developed on a individual basis and instance,, again come on, I just said something similar of what you said,, all you did was go into greater detail,,,,, don't know if you got your reading glasses on mate,,, it's certainly not the last words is the winner.

Edited by Buccal, 17 July 2016 - 07:18 AM.

[Poncho]

Buccal you said they have some kind of genetical disposition for immunity. James said it is not genetical at all and explained how immunity is actually developed. That doesn't sound like similar information to me. you can't blame James for insulting you or reading your posts wrong when he's purely correcting false information.

We don't need competitions on this forum about who is better or more knowledgeable so can you drop the superiority complex and allow the rest of us to have informative discussion without having princess moments every time someone corrects you please. You're actually detracting from the forum because knowledgeable people go away and stop posting rather than having to debate constantly against your nonsense.

Thanks for the input James. I'm still not sold on the release either but I know a little bit more about the subject now

[keleherr]

you seemed to quote me as a unknowledgeable noob,, but you read my posts wrong which I'm Suprised at.
You said the disease doesn't effect human,, well I know that,, it's the poo water after the treatment full of dead fish that leads to a host of multiple secondary diseases causing for example ear infection spreading to the brain. Jesus, a little insulting that you thought that I thought it could spread to humans like that. Lol,, you may be better than everyone else, but not that much better.
Then you said, 'no it doesn't work like that, I immunity is Generally developed on a individual basis and instance,, again come on, I just said something similar of what you said,, all you did was go into greater detail,,,,, don't know if you got your reading glasses on mate,,, it's certainly not the last words is the winner.

I did read your post wrong I though you were referring to infection by the virus so for that I take back my previous comment and apologies. For the latter poncho is right I was saying it's not genetic.

This is a discussion/debate on an open forum where anyone is free to put in their two cents or a counter argument. I put in mine, doesn't mean I think I'm better than anyone or anything is personal.

[Tarpon]

Sorry guys but we do certainly see instances of genetic immunity and resistance to viruses

For example HIV  www.hivplusmag.com/research-breakthroughs/2016/3/23/anyone-immune-hiv

and Hepatitis C www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(14)70965-X/fulltext?rss=yes

 

Of course these are not the Koi Herpes Virus but these examples do show that  individuals may have immunity to a virus

As such a population of carp may develop resistance or immunity to the KHV and rapidly re-populate resulting in a complete waste of time and resources in trying to eradicate them in the 1st place as well as lingering KHV in other hosts even bristlenose catfish   www.int-res.com/articles/dao_oa/d105p163.pdf

 

And yes viruses DO mutate and change their activity and infectivity eg Asian Influenza pandemic 1957  www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2862331/

 

Good to have some sensible discussion on the PCS again by the way

[Buccal]

Buccal you said they have some kind of genetical disposition for immunity. James said it is not genetical at all and explained how immunity is actually developed. That doesn't sound like similar information to me. you can't blame James for insulting you or reading your posts wrong when he's purely correcting false information.
We don't need competitions on this forum about who is better or more knowledgeable so can you drop the superiority complex and allow the rest of us to have informative discussion without having princess moments every time someone corrects you please. You're actually detracting from the forum because knowledgeable people go away and stop posting rather than having to debate constantly against your nonsense.
Thanks for the input James. I'm still not sold on the release either but I know a little bit more about the subject now

ok then I got the idea now.....

[keleherr]

Sorry guys but we do certainly see instances of genetic immunity and resistance to viruses

For example HIV  www.hivplusmag.com/research-breakthroughs/2016/3/23/anyone-immune-hiv

and Hepatitis C www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(14)70965-X/fulltext?rss=yes

 

Of course these are not the Koi Herpes Virus but these examples do show that  individuals may have immunity to a virus

As such a population of carp may develop resistance or immunity to the KHV and rapidly re-populate resulting in a complete waste of time and resources in trying to eradicate them in the 1st place as well as lingering KHV in other hosts even bristlenose catfish   www.int-res.com/articles/dao_oa/d105p163.pdf

 

And yes viruses DO mutate and change their activity and infectivity eg Asian Influenza pandemic 1957  www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2862331/

 

Good to have some sensible discussion on the PCS again by the way

 

bigjohnnofish said immunity and immunity is an immunological response meaning the the body fights the pathogen using the process above and removes it from the body, this doesn't get imprinted in the genome to be passed on but can develop within the individual.

Resistant is where the pathogen can cruise through the body without affecting the host through replication and is not targeted by the immune system. This may be because the host has a mutation in one of the genes that make up a cell surface protein the virus uses to attach and enter through. now its different the virus cant find anywhere to attache so just floats around. This can be passed on genetically and is developed between generations not within individuals.

There might be exceptions to these but not to date with KHV and most of my comments have been in relation to this virus.

 

At no point said viruses don't mutate, even made a comparison to influenza, KHV is just one of the stable ones. It survives and is passed on in most species but it is not virulent to any specie but carp.