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Collecting In The South West


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#1 keleherr

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Posted 30 June 2011 - 12:21 PM

for clarification anything listed can NOT be collected by any means.

the following are not listed and can be caught on a line or with a small dip net (except in national parks)
NIGHTFISH Bostockia porosa
FRESHWATER COBBLER Tandanus bostocki
WESTERN PYGMY PERCH Nannoperca vittata
WESTERN MINNOW Galaxias occidentalis
JOLLYTAIL Galaxias maculatus

the following are listed as vulnerable (EPBC Act 1999/WA DEC)
BALSTON'S PYGMY PERCH Nannatherina balstoni


the following are listed as near threatened (IUCN)
SALAMANDERFISH Lepidogalaxias salamandroides
BLACK-STRIPE MINNOW Galaxiella nigrostriata
MUD MINNOW Galaxiella munda

the following are listed as ENDANGERD (WA DEC), CRITICALLY ENDANGERED (EPBC Act 1999)
TROUT MINNOW Galaxias truttaceus

#2 Fox

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Posted 30 June 2011 - 01:07 PM

Good info, Do you know if they breed-able in aquarium/pond?
If so is it possible to collect and try to breed with permit of course.

#3 Juls

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 09:03 PM

My understanding was dip nets are illegal too, only landing nets allowed.

You must also have a freshwater angling licence was how I understood the rules.

The Pygmy perch would be the only ones I would imagine easy to breed, although these can be bought from many lfs for $4-6 each. So catching your own would be pointless, Marron farmers use Pygmy perch to clean parasites off the marrons shells.

Juls

Edited by Juls, 05 July 2011 - 09:08 PM.


#4 Mr_docfish

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 09:52 PM

It is all a grey area - my opinion is, if it is for breeding purposes, and the numbers of individuals found in one area are numerous, then pick a few and have a go without causing any damage to the surrounding vegetation or other species of animals in the process... if you do so with thought and concern for the environment, then you would not be upsetting the balance..... asking for permits and details from the departments is wasting time and money - if only a couple of individuals are involved and have consideration for the environment and use their heads while collecting, then there will be no permanent harm - human population encroachment and pollution is causing greater damage.... just like fishing - take what you need if there are plenty to choose from, and try not to upset too much while you are there... and keep out of national parks - they are there for a reason....

#5 keleherr

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Posted 06 July 2011 - 08:30 PM

i only know of Nannoperca vittata, Lepidogalaxias salamandroides and Galaxiella nigrostriata breeding in captivity but not in huge numbers. docfish is right it is a grey area, ill see what info i can dig up when i get back to perth next week.

#6 Graeme

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Posted 07 July 2011 - 06:40 PM

You better not be out enjoying Kimberley rivers again smile.gif

#7 pseudechisbutleri

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Posted 27 November 2016 - 01:48 PM

It is all a grey area - my opinion is, if it is for breeding purposes, and the numbers of individuals found in one area are numerous, then pick a few and have a go without causing any damage to the surrounding vegetation or other species of animals in the process... if you do so with thought and concern for the environment, then you would not be upsetting the balance..... asking for permits and details from the departments is wasting time and money - if only a couple of individuals are involved and have consideration for the environment and use their heads while collecting, then there will be no permanent harm - human population encroachment and pollution is causing greater damage.... just like fishing - take what you need if there are plenty to choose from, and try not to upset too much while you are there... and keep out of national parks - they are there for a reason....

Are you referring to all of our local species (including the protected species), or just ones we're allowed to collect?



#8 sajica

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Posted 28 November 2016 - 07:48 AM

More than likely just the species you are allowed to collect. Cool username by the way Pseudechis butleri :D



#9 pseudechisbutleri

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Posted 28 November 2016 - 11:18 AM

Lol thanks.

 

It's unfortunate that most of our natives are protected, some of them would make interesting aquarium subjects. Have any of these species ever been bred for aquaria?



#10 malawiman85

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 06:42 PM

i only know of Nannoperca vittata, Lepidogalaxias salamandroides and Galaxiella nigrostriata breeding in captivity but not in huge numbers. docfish is right it is a grey area, ill see what info i can dig up when i get back to perth next week.


Who has bred salamandroides?

#11 pseudechisbutleri

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Posted 14 December 2016 - 07:20 PM

And nigrostriata?



#12 Juls

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 06:47 PM

BALSTON'S PYGMY PERCH Nannatherina balstoni
SALAMANDERFISH Lepidogalaxias salamandroides 
BLACK-STRIPE MINNOW Galaxiella nigrostriata
MUD MINNOW Galaxiella munda

TROUT MINNOW Galaxias truttaceus 

LITTLE PYGMY PERCH. 

 

Are all on the DO NOT TAKE LIST. 

 

So collecting nigrostriata and salamandroides is illegal.

 

Nigrostriata is not a bad aquarium fish if kept in a group of it's own conspecifics. It is easy to feed, does better in acid water, only 1 fish in a group will hold maximum colors, the rest will be more drab, generally not very long lived though.

However they are still illegal to take, and they are near threatend status so really just leave them alone. 

 

I do not reccomend anyone trying to collect salamandroides as they are very difficult to keep alive,

they won't tolerate PH above 7.0 (forget about tap water without owning a RO unit) and all the things that go with that. They also will not touch dead foods and generally die before you'll have any chance of trying to train them otherwise.

 

If your absoluently must catch them and break the law, then please only take large adults 5cm+ 

and only catch them around october/november when they are at there strongest and have already spawned for the season.

 

It is extremely unlikely you'll be able to keep smaller salamanders alive, in my experience its easiest to keep a single specimen, if you have multiple specimens together this can make it much harder to get them to eat and you'll suffer loses rapidly. In other words, if you gotta get one, just get one of a reasonable size and no more.

 

setup a cycled tank around 60 litres, with soft (about PH6-6.5 is ok) clean water and plenty of live daphina/mosquito larvae/blood worms. there habitat is generally devoid of aquatic plants, sandy to loam bottom that on the surface is usually rich in decomposing organic matter making the substrate black giving the fish a place to hide by simply sitting still. A handful of sticks and a rock isn't a bad idea.

 

This should only be attempted by a well experienced aquarium keeper with proper understanding about water quality, and good live food culture skills, and lots of dedication, its not a fish you can get your mum to look after while you go on holiday for a week and the fact that you would remove it from the wild means it is a very big responsibility that isn't to be taken lightly.

 

That being said, if you get it right, it can be a pretty special experience for many years to come.



#13 pseudechisbutleri

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 05:36 PM

BALSTON'S PYGMY PERCH Nannatherina balstoni
SALAMANDERFISH Lepidogalaxias salamandroides 
BLACK-STRIPE MINNOW Galaxiella nigrostriata
MUD MINNOW Galaxiella munda

TROUT MINNOW Galaxias truttaceus 

LITTLE PYGMY PERCH. 

 

Are all on the DO NOT TAKE LIST. 

 

So collecting nigrostriata and salamandroides is illegal.

 

Nigrostriata is not a bad aquarium fish if kept in a group of it's own conspecifics. It is easy to feed, does better in acid water, only 1 fish in a group will hold maximum colors, the rest will be more drab, generally not very long lived though.

However they are still illegal to take, and they are near threatend status so really just leave them alone. 

 

I do not reccomend anyone trying to collect salamandroides as they are very difficult to keep alive,

they won't tolerate PH above 7.0 (forget about tap water without owning a RO unit) and all the things that go with that. They also will not touch dead foods and generally die before you'll have any chance of trying to train them otherwise.

 

If your absoluently must catch them and break the law, then please only take large adults 5cm+ 

and only catch them around october/november when they are at there strongest and have already spawned for the season.

 

It is extremely unlikely you'll be able to keep smaller salamanders alive, in my experience its easiest to keep a single specimen, if you have multiple specimens together this can make it much harder to get them to eat and you'll suffer loses rapidly. In other words, if you gotta get one, just get one of a reasonable size and no more.

 

setup a cycled tank around 60 litres, with soft (about PH6-6.5 is ok) clean water and plenty of live daphina/mosquito larvae/blood worms. there habitat is generally devoid of aquatic plants, sandy to loam bottom that on the surface is usually rich in decomposing organic matter making the substrate black giving the fish a place to hide by simply sitting still. A handful of sticks and a rock isn't a bad idea.

 

This should only be attempted by a well experienced aquarium keeper with proper understanding about water quality, and good live food culture skills, and lots of dedication, its not a fish you can get your mum to look after while you go on holiday for a week and the fact that you would remove it from the wild means it is a very big responsibility that isn't to be taken lightly.

 

That being said, if you get it right, it can be a pretty special experience for many years to come.

 

Thanks for the details, hopefully in the future, I'll have a good excuse to have a go at keeping salamandroides (obviously once gain adequate knowledge about the specifics of caring for them), but I don't see that happening in the near future.



#14 pseudechisbutleri

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 09:04 AM

BALSTON'S PYGMY PERCH Nannatherina balstoniSALAMANDERFISH Lepidogalaxias salamandroides BLACK-STRIPE MINNOW Galaxiella nigrostriataMUD MINNOW Galaxiella munda
TROUT MINNOW Galaxias truttaceus 
LITTLE PYGMY PERCH. 
 
Are all on the DO NOT TAKE LIST. 
 
So collecting nigrostriata and salamandroides is illegal.
 
Nigrostriata is not a bad aquarium fish if kept in a group of it's own conspecifics. It is easy to feed, does better in acid water, only 1 fish in a group will hold maximum colors, the rest will be more drab, generally not very long lived though.
However they are still illegal to take, and they are near threatend status so really just leave them alone. 
 
I do not reccomend anyone trying to collect salamandroides as they are very difficult to keep alive,
they won't tolerate PH above 7.0 (forget about tap water without owning a RO unit) and all the things that go with that. They also will not touch dead foods and generally die before you'll have any chance of trying to train them otherwise.
 
If your absoluently must catch them and break the law, then please only take large adults 5cm+ 
and only catch them around october/november when they are at there strongest and have already spawned for the season.
 
It is extremely unlikely you'll be able to keep smaller salamanders alive, in my experience its easiest to keep a single specimen, if you have multiple specimens together this can make it much harder to get them to eat and you'll suffer loses rapidly. In other words, if you gotta get one, just get one of a reasonable size and no more.
 
setup a cycled tank around 60 litres, with soft (about PH6-6.5 is ok) clean water and plenty of live daphina/mosquito larvae/blood worms. there habitat is generally devoid of aquatic plants, sandy to loam bottom that on the surface is usually rich in decomposing organic matter making the substrate black giving the fish a place to hide by simply sitting still. A handful of sticks and a rock isn't a bad idea.
 
This should only be attempted by a well experienced aquarium keeper with proper understanding about water quality, and good live food culture skills, and lots of dedication, its not a fish you can get your mum to look after while you go on holiday for a week and the fact that you would remove it from the wild means it is a very big responsibility that isn't to be taken lightly.
 
That being said, if you get it right, it can be a pretty special experience for many years to come.


By the way, what else is there to the water chemistry, other than RO water and acidic pH?

#15 pseudechisbutleri

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Posted 06 January 2017 - 05:56 PM

Additionally, under what circumstances would one be allowed to keep the aforementioned protected species?



#16 Westie

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Posted 06 January 2017 - 09:01 PM

It's a shame that the aquarium society of WA isn't on this forum. I've had some fantastic discussions with members about these fish

#17 pseudechisbutleri

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Posted 07 January 2017 - 07:54 AM

Oh? Like about the care and legal status of these species?



#18 Juls

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Posted 09 January 2017 - 10:28 PM

Legal status.
1. On do not take list
2. Near threatend/potentially vulnerable

To be legally be able to capture them I don't think you can, to move them in theory you'd need a translocation permit. The amount of effort involved in that with a very high likelyhood of not being issued a translocation permit. There's enough red tape involved that ultimately the red tape is ineffective at achieving its intended outcome.

Again it's either a lot of effort for a unlikely outcome or take the risk. Ultimately I think just don't bother with salamanderfish unless you can find someone who has aquarium bred ones. Which is unlikely.

#19 pseudechisbutleri

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 07:32 AM

So if the protected species are only protected from being captured from the wild, then it would not be illegal to purchase them from someone who, under whatever circumstances (maybe they dug up some mud, took it home without checking, and found a couple of salamander fish in the mud) have protected species?

 

Also what is the difference between moving and capturing the fish?



#20 Juls

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 07:01 PM

There's no difference, 

It wouldn't be illegal to buy some salamanders from someone who bred them from broodstock obtained before on the do not take list. 

It would be illegal to buy/obtain for free wild caught specimens.

 

it's not illegal to posses these fish in your own premises, assuming it can't be proved you removed them in the wild since they where added to the do not take list.

 

Capture rules for freshwater fish are, rod and line, Nothing else is legal. IE: no practical method of capture is legal. (traps illegal, hand nets illegal, anything that ain't a rod and line, is illegal)

 

I'm on your side here, i think it's a little crazy the way things have gone with this sort of thing, but just pointing out the reality so you understand the risk should you decide to take it.

 

Its important to also understand fisheries are the only government agency that does not need a warrant or even a decent reason to enter and search your property, they did a sting on cherry shrimp a few years ago, all pretty heavy handed (overkill really achieved nothing), entered propertys, siezed livestock for disease testing, nuked all tanks that "might have shrimp in them" with straight bleach, some lost all there aquariums, all fish the whole lot, nothing was spared.

 

But really, regardless of all that.. Salamanders don't make a good aquarium fish unless you have many many many years experience keeping very difficult to keep fish, every other native we have in south west WA is crazily easy to keep comparitively. 

 

All of our native fish I would rate maximum 2/10 difficulty to keep, Salamanders are 11/10.

 

Put simply, salamanders don't travel well, they are hard to get to eat, they don't tolerate trace amounts of ammonia found in above neutral water, they jump out of the tank and die if you try to do a water change or alter the water conditions even slightly, they spook easily and hit the walls, lids. they escape from tanks even with airtight lids and die, they won't eat dead foods without many many months of training.

 

if you get it right it is a really special thing, but chances of success for most standard aquarium keepers... 01%.

 

its one thing bringing fish home from vebas or aquotix and they last a week and die, it's another thing taking a near threatend highly specialized fish species from the wild and killing them in less than a week..  :(


Edited by Juls, 10 January 2017 - 07:11 PM.





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