40 replies to this topic

[Jules]

marines scream expensive, to do it properly, spend the money, that's the best key.

As much water volume that you can get is the key to stability, the slightest fluctuations in marines can cause systems to crash.

Lights, up to you, what do you want to keep, what colour temperature range do you like, do you want that shimmer effect etc. LEDs are the way these days, several HOT5s are also popular but costly replacements cost, halides are seemingly sounding to become outdated, due to dearer running costs and expensive annual bulb replacement.

 

Skimmers help remove certain soluble wastes and products that simple biological or mechanical filtration cant remove, I have seen stunning set ups with out them thrive and yeah the crappest looking tankw with them. QUlaity effectively tuned skimmer will do you wonders and work really well. For nano systmes such as yours I have used Tunze Nano skim 9002 - easily tuned, no micro bubbles and skimmed a cup of gunk weekly! But just cause you have a skimmer doesn't mean you can let water changes slide. youll still need to replace essential trace elements for coral and invert well being, as well as maintaining low phosphates and nitrates in the system.

 

Water movement, ppl skimp on this greatly. Replicate the ocean, as random and quality flow as you can.

If I where to do another marine aquarium that size, id go A vortech MP10, and have it on a reef crest mode or lagoon mood, or the short pulse (movement of these little things are awesome - also super small pumps so take up minimal room in the tank).

Id recommend turning the water over minimum 20-30 times an hour, especially if our wanting to keep more temperamental coral species such as acroporas and many other sps.

 

Just my 2 sense - look on the nanoreef.com website, mainly American, but my word the set ups and that on there are stunning, that site is based to advanced nano reef keepers with very high class set ups, as well as simple yet stunning systems.

 

Good luck and enjoy the journey, I like the tank you got!

[Redevilz]

Great Reply Jules.

I agree, the vortech MP10 pumps are the bees knees, however just depends how much you want to spend. Check out the Tunze wavemakers as well, they are a bit cheaper. I believe the tunze wavemakers for nano tanks are called Tunze Nano Stream??

[shane78]

Hi Shane78

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

What I am a bit confused about is what equipment is required (crucial) and what equipment is not so crucial.

 

What I am thinking are (i) lights, (ii) protein skimmer (iii) wavemaker as essentials, but not sure about this.

 

Lights seem to be very expensive.  Can you suggest lights for my aquarium, I would prefer the clip on ones in order to keep the 'minimalist' look.

 

With a protein skimmer some people say its not necessary, but it seems quite crucial to me?

 

Also with a wavemaker, I assume the smallest one would be sufficient?

 

I am kind of approaching this thing as a long term (6 month) projects as I have lots to learn and limited finances...

 

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its all a learning curve for me as well, I too am limited to funds so small being harder, is alot cheaper, I am not running a skimmer I just do bout 50 to 70% water change weekly, My nano has three chambers

at the back two of them have filter media in them and the other is for pump and heater, as for lights and wavemaker, the lights I have are just led blue and white and all blue for night time, not super bright

but do the job is a clip on one, and I use a small powerhead for circulation as I had a spare one lying around I think the most important thing I purchased was some quality live rock which was quite mature

and had heaps of good little critters on board when I got it. Best advice is research all the forums 9 times out of 10 your question has been asked before and if you cant find what your looking for dont be afraid

to ask the question, masa is a great site and everyone that has a marine tank has been where you are before.

[Jules]

Great Reply Jules.

I agree, the vortech MP10 pumps are the bees knees, however just depends how much you want to spend. Check out the Tunze wavemakers as well, they are a bit cheaper. I believe the tunze wavemakers for nano tanks are called Tunze Nano Stream??

Thanks.

Tunze nanos are called turbelle nano streams, but you need to buy the additional wave maker kit thing to get them to pulse etc.

Shop around my mate and I scored MP10s for $150 online somewhere )ill try find where)

[emille]

Thank you Jules, and Redevilz and Shane – I appreciate your advice.  Its unbelievable how clueless I am about all this, but every day I know more than the previous. Whats good about your advice is now I have a few ‘brands/names’ to at least guide me in terms of equipment.  Ideally due to the size of the tank it sounds like you need to get the very best equipment.  Mine would be limited by funds so I will have to choose what I compromise on and what not.  In this regard I can live with equipment (sump / wavemaker / lighting) of up to $160 each but probably not over that. As a side issue, in terms of logic, I don’t understand if some people don’t have a skimmer at all, wouldn’t it be better to have a ‘lower quality’ skimmer rather than having nothing, as opposed to buying the best skimmer available? I have joined nanoreef.com but havent spent much time on it yet.  Looks very interesting – wish we could have such affordable equipment here than in the US!  By the way, have you ordered anything from overseas?  In terms of a sump, mine (existing tank to be used as sump) is about 28cm high.  Would it make sense at all to get a ‘tall sump tank’ (will have more volume) or should sumps be generally ‘horizontal rather than vertical’?  In terms of lights, I want to best quality for around $150.  Cant really spend $400 etc on lights.  But due to running costs I would probably prefer LEDs. I am not choosy on the types of coral to keep so I wont be keeping the more difficult ones.

I see the vortech MP10 is about $400, too much for me!  The Tunze is probably going to be more likely.  Sounds like Tunze in terms of quality is always good to pursue.  Will this one suffice – Tunze Nanostream 6015 which has water flow of 1800 litres per hour ($53 seems like a bargain or am I missing something)?

http://www.thetechden.com.au/Tunze_Turnbelle_nanostream_6015_p/6015.000.htm?utm_source=myshopping&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Pet+Supplies&utm_term=Tunze+Turnbelle+nanostream+6015+The+Tunze+Turbelle+nanostream+i

 

Jules, what is the additional wave maker kit thing to get them to pulse?

Do I need lights in the sump as well or can that be dark?

Shane, 50 to 70% water changes sounds like a lot!  What do you reckon, if I have a skimmer, would 20% be sufficient?

Whereabouts is the best place for live rock in Perth?  I see Avid Aquaria sells some cured acro branching live rock for $16 a kg.  Do I need about $84 dollars worth?  Can these be kept in dry conditions until I set up my tank or is it something that must be kept ‘wet’ at all times?

I have joined masa now and will be making contact there as well.

Thanks again for all your help.

emille

[Jules]

random flow verse uniform flow, nutrient export from corals is better and corals don't cop a straight pounding from the one constant pump.

These are all guides, based on setups ive had that have been very successful. Im not saying that you need all this equipment, but I can guarantee you'll have a better chance at perfecting successful reef ecosystem with better quality equipment.

Sumps allow for refugiums or chateaus, in which you would require a light to grow macro algae (beneficial in sumps I have also experienced, growing caluerpa sp. controlled phosphates and nitrates and excess algae growth id trade into my LFS for saltwater) - otherwise sump can be dark, something as simple as a 13wt energy saver bulb would be sufficient.

Vebas generally get the best fresh live rock in my opinion. Id work on maybe 1 kg of rock for 4-5lts, but depends on how much of an aquascape you want (heaps of rock vs little amount of rock). Id sugest you keep it wet, and wouldn't leave for more then a few hours (wrapped in wet newspaper).

 

MASWA and MASA also very knowledgeable site, its good to see marines slowly picking up on here, but marine dedicated forums will provide greater experiences ideas and opinions on set ups....... Not to mention perving on other ppls set ups!!

[shane78]

As for water changes my tank at the moment is only 30l so a 50 to 70l change is really only a 20l bucket full and I collect my own water every fortnight, as for live rock I found mine on gumtree bought private from a lady in wanneroo for 5 bucks a kilo, not alot of coraline algae but has started growing heaps recently, it also came with a chiton, heaps of feather dusters and a pistol shrimp, I have a berlin air 60 skimmer and for the life of me can get it to work properly so maybe its better to have none than a cheap one.

[Jules]

In tank skimmers and air driven skimmers can be a pain!
The wooden diffusers clog readily and they don't seem to produce micro bubbles or turn over water effective like Venturi or other pump fed skimmers.

In display tanks, unless you have an auto matic top up unit, skimmers again don't work 100%. You want to keep a consistent water level line I'm the skimmer to produce a constant skimate if that makes sense.

[shane78]

yeh thats what i thought, not gonna bother with auto top till i get bigger tank with sump

[emille]

In tank skimmers and air driven skimmers can be a pain!
The wooden diffusers clog readily and they don't seem to produce micro bubbles or turn over water effective like Venturi or other pump fed skimmers.

In display tanks, unless you have an auto matic top up unit, skimmers again don't work 100%. You want to keep a consistent water level line I'm the skimmer to produce a constant skimate if that makes sense.

Jules I absolutely have no clue what you have just said above????

[Redevilz]

Haha yeah I was the same when I began keeping marines. Everyone was speaking of Venturi this and Refugium that. It was like they were speaking another language!

Jules is right, the skimmers that are powered by air pumps and are actually in the tank get clogged easily. These skimmers also don't produce as many micro bubbles, therefore, they won't remove as much gunk as the Venturi skimmers which either clip on the side off the tank or are separate to the aquarium or sump and the water gets to the skimmer via a pump.

[MrLeifBeaver]

Just adding my 2 cents in (without reading all the comments). I currently have a Oceanfree Nano 34L. So far whole setup is about $600.

 

And yes Nanos' are hard. Just got back from a week holiday and looking at the tank I think it needs some work. The Anemones are not look too healthy.

[emille]

Just adding my 2 cents in (without reading all the comments). I currently have a Oceanfree Nano 34L. So far whole setup is about $600.

 

And yes Nanos' are hard. Just got back from a week holiday and looking at the tank I think it needs some work. The Anemones are not look too healthy.

everybody says how much work they are, but what exactly is the work?  isn't it just water changes if you have the right equipment and all works fine?

[emille]

Haha yeah I was the same when I began keeping marines. Everyone was speaking of Venturi this and Refugium that. It was like they were speaking another language!

Jules is right, the skimmers that are powered by air pumps and are actually in the tank get clogged easily. These skimmers also don't produce as many micro bubbles, therefore, they won't remove as much gunk as the Venturi skimmers which either clip on the side off the tank or are separate to the aquarium or sump and the water gets to the skimmer via a pump.

whats your view on this one? it gets great review particularly for that price

 

AQUA ONE G216 PROTEIN SKIMMER AU$76.45

Aqua One ProSkim Protein Skimmers are designed to easily and effectively remove organic waste from aquarium water. The needle wheel impeller increases the contact area, maximising efficiency. The simple, accurate control allows you to adjust the output quickly and easily. The result is cleaner, clearer water and healthier aquarium inhabitants 

 Features & Benefits: 

 Removes organic waste from your aquarium, making it clean and clear. 

Adjust controls quickly and with minimal effort. 

Needle wheel impeller reduces the bubble size which creates higher surface area for collection of organic waste. 

Variable mounting options allows for use either insump or hang on style placement. 

Water Pump with needle wheel included

 

Aquariums Up to : 400 Litres 

Dimensions : 21x13x40cm 

Power consumption :20W 

Edited by emille, 26 April 2014 - 10:11 PM.

[Jules]

Best reading reviews, I have only used a reef octopus skimmer. Macro aqua and tunze one. Which once tuned worked well.
Read heaps of reviews and go from there. I don't note how well aqua one does in the saltwater game (I use there canisters and heaters - think there good for what they are, but don't now how well they stack up marine wise)

If I where you I'd go the tunze 9002. It's not a lot more when I can oath the quality.

Have to be careful to not over skim to, I read an article where they said some skimmers remove to much stuff from the water (such as specific trace elements corals require).
Get a skimmer rated to near what your tank size is.
Bigger isn't necessarily always better.

[Redevilz]

everybody says how much work they are, but what exactly is the work?  isn't it just water changes if you have the right equipment and all works fine?

I thought the same before starting my marine 34L. The work isn't in the water changes, (that's the easy part) the work is in constantly testing the water and keeping the balance right and not over stocking your aquarium.

There's a fine line between a perfect tank and a tank crash with Nanos. Stop doing water changes and algae blooms will occur easily.

Edited by Redevilz, 28 April 2014 - 09:13 AM.

[Jules]

Stability is the hard work, cant let anything fluctuate too much.

[MrLeifBeaver]

everybody says how much work they are, but what exactly is the work?  isn't it just water changes if you have the right equipment and all works fine?

 

My comments are in no way trying to dissuade you from doing marine, I had the LFS saying all this same stuff to me. It is actaully really cool Nano, I love watching it.

I listened, did my research and took it slowy, just the same as you are now. Well done.

 

Yeah, hard work in the sense that you have to be very consistant with keeping the tank. Both Redevilz and Jules have answered quite well.

 

My Blue tip anemone split into two, now I have one extra anemone that is taxing on the tank. I think that one item has upset the tank as one of my snails died, and I think I saw a dead bristleworm too.

This weekend I am going to do a bit of an overhaul on the tank, re-arrange the coral, sell an anemone (who wants one?).

[emille]

hi all and thanks for your replies.

 

i went on sunday to the masa (wa branch) event - was interesting to see a 'top of the range' tank.  quite scary actually how complicated and expensive things can become

 

this is where I am at at the moment:

 

so far i have decided to 'upgrade'/maximise my sumps as much as possible as this is where my stability will lie.  i am considering asking morley aquariums tomorrow how much they would quote for a sump - i need about  34 cm (length) x 34 cm (width) x 50 cm (height) sump with about 3 compartments.  I am can't expand on the width but can get volume in the height.  not sure if the height is too high. i want to put algae and live rock in the sump and perhaps bioballs and filter media (sponge where it enters the sump)

 

i have no idea how the pipes will have to connect etc but will pursue that now

 

1) pump/'wave maker' - tunze nano stream 6015 - price is good and sounds like good quality. for the nano i don't think i would need more movement. the electronic ones are too expensive

 

2) led lights, these for the price:

16k http://www.naqua.com... ... -reef-lamp or  if i feel to splurge these (sexy) ones: Micmol Aqua Mini (http://www.naqua.com... ... -aqua-mini)

 

3) aqua one G216 protein skimmer - set at lowest and put this in the sump

 

4) a small twin marine tank clip on fan for those hot perth days - and put it over the sump - any ideas of good brands for these

 

Aquarium Low Noise Hang On Cooling Fan For Nano Coral Reef...

 

i have no clue about corals though but i am thinking the least complicated ones and definitely the 'mushroom/fungia' ones.  in terms of fish - 2 clowns and blenny

alternatively small tropical seahorses (food puts me off) but i am steering towards clowns at the moment. 

 

will keep you updated and any views, opinions, advice welcomed!

Edited by emille, 28 April 2014 - 10:15 PM.

[Redevilz]

Bangaii cardinals are cool are go well with clownfish.

In a tank that size you could probably get about 4 small fish.

Pretty much all bennies are easy to keep. Six line wrasse are a very colorful nano reef fish with attitude. I had one of them in my little nano and they are one of my favourite fish. Not very expensive either.

Those lights look very nice!