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keleherr

Member Since 03 Oct 2004
Offline Last Active Jul 10 2018 01:58 PM

#365042 New Pilbara Species

Posted by keleherr on 14 February 2018 - 12:52 PM

Big of an update. Went back up last week to determine the current distribution of these guys and fortunately it looks like they are currently restricted to a few pools below the dam and haven't establish populations in downstream refuge pools after a recent flow event. Now to try and remove them. Hardy buggers found them in a pH of 9.7.

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Also caught a boonta spang

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https://www.facebook...cEnvironmental/




#363000 New Pilbara Species

Posted by keleherr on 14 August 2017 - 10:40 AM

If they aren't in the dam or mash we will wait till the river pools up to hopefully a few small pools then hit them with pumps, netting and rotenone. Things have been complicated by Ophthamia dam needing to release as it is about to burst, so we have to hold off a bit. If they are in the dam it might be too late but from the previous survey I don't think they are.




#362973 New Pilbara Species

Posted by keleherr on 11 August 2017 - 03:14 PM

Unfortunately found these guys in the upper Fortescue River over a 25km reach. They popped up on the second round of sampling so they haven't been in there too long. Will be going up again shortly to see how far they have spread and try work out an eradication plan to try remove them before the next flood.

 

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https://www.facebook...?type=3

 




#359954 Snaps From Work

Posted by keleherr on 01 March 2017 - 09:49 AM

Here's a poster from work with some of the things we commonly catch. Post things on the indo-pacific environmental facebook page occasionally.

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#359447 Snaps From Work

Posted by keleherr on 10 February 2017 - 08:17 AM

For the small stuff we kinda cheat with an electrofisher. Target a lot of barra and sooties on line which is fun.

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Sometimes there is some real big stuff hanging around

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#359426 Snaps From Work

Posted by keleherr on 09 February 2017 - 11:30 AM

found a picture

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#359425 Snaps From Work

Posted by keleherr on 09 February 2017 - 10:52 AM


That sawfish!! Man that would be unreal to be around a creature like that.

Encountered many FW Whip rays?

Yeh caught a few and see them in the shallows sometimes




#359391 Snaps From Work

Posted by keleherr on 08 February 2017 - 03:01 PM

Couple on snaps from a new gig in the NT

Attached Files




#353918 Koi Herpes Virus

Posted by keleherr on 17 July 2016 - 01:46 PM

you seemed to quote me as a unknowledgeable noob,, but you read my posts wrong which I'm Suprised at.
You said the disease doesn't effect human,, well I know that,, it's the poo water after the treatment full of dead fish that leads to a host of multiple secondary diseases causing for example ear infection spreading to the brain. Jesus, a little insulting that you thought that I thought it could spread to humans like that. Lol,, you may be better than everyone else, but not that much better.
Then you said, 'no it doesn't work like that, I immunity is Generally developed on a individual basis and instance,, again come on, I just said something similar of what you said,, all you did was go into greater detail,,,,, don't know if you got your reading glasses on mate,,, it's certainly not the last words is the winner.

I did read your post wrong I though you were referring to infection by the virus so for that I take back my previous comment and apologies. For the latter poncho is right I was saying it's not genetic.

This is a discussion/debate on an open forum where anyone is free to put in their two cents or a counter argument. I put in mine, doesn't mean I think I'm better than anyone or anything is personal.




#353901 Koi Herpes Virus

Posted by keleherr on 16 July 2016 - 11:13 PM

 

Hi James, I didnt try to change the argument, I addressed all your points in same order, but I did emphasise the constant clean up issue. Barney rubble will be retired in a few years with his big politicians tax free pension and all his other benefits and we hard working tax payers will be footing the cleanup bill for the rest of our lives for his mistake. 

 

Scientific estimates I read is that at least 60% of the population will be back within 10 years with various levels of immunity to the virus.

 

So it seems we have 2 choices;

 

1. We can have a carp population thats virus infected, with horrible sores and deformities, and seasonal mass die offs, polluting waterways.

2. We can have a carp population thats healthy.

 

Its a democracy, and I vote number 2.

 

Thanks. :)

These scientist that are making these comments wouldn't happen to be getting a lot of their current funding from carp control or investigation would they?

There will be an initial mass die off but it won't be seasonal. You knock off 90% how will the following year have a mass die off with a 10th remaining?

I'm indifferent to the whole thing and respect peoples choice on where they choose to side. I'm just responding to some of the rash and inaccurate statements.

 

Your dog bolts into lake, dies of a brain infection due to all sorts of crazies in the ear hole,,, what about kids,, they going to fence all treated areas if they can't retrieve it all on a constant basis ? Even in change of government ?,,, oh jeez.

You mean meningitis, meningococcal and the hundreds of other things that already exist in most freshwater water bodies? As I said in an earlier post it is impossible for this virus to survive in the human body. The proteins that make it up are unstable and dissociate at temps in the human body. Its like boiling a piece of meat, it falls apart. But what about mutation.......this is like a fish turning into a dog, almost every protein it is made up of would need to change into something completely different to be stable and function at those temps. So there is no need for a fence unless it is on private property and over 30cm or whatever the regs are deep.

 

 

Yes Johnno, 100% correct,, after all,, those small percentage of big resistant ones use to be babies to,, they simply have some type of genetical disposition to dodge the virus, or receive it with a softer blow,,, this in its self tells me there are particular individuals less suseptable, and typically the species slowly build resistance.
Remember when the scientists swore black and blue that it was totally impossible for humans to contract mad cow disease ??? Lol.

No, it doesn't work like that immunity is generally developed on an individual basis and instance. If it were wouldn't there be a resistant strain of carp all over the world where carp are of economic importance? here is an example: Your parents likely got chicken pox as children, beat the virus, developed immunity, grew up, met and made you. Did you to get chicken pox as a child like almost every child?  which is also in the herpes family.

The short way of how it works is your immune system recognizes something foreign in your body and targets it. While doing this is also creates a memory (antibodies) that recognize the surface of a pathogen so in the future is able to rid or control the virus before it can proliferate. These memories aren't imprinted within the genome or passed on in the swimmers or egg. With carp this virus has mechanisms to hide for a bit and is virulent to this species usually killing the host before its immune system knows what is going on. If a carp cops a low dose it may have time to develop some resistance. Or if it has pick up a matching antigen along the line.

 

That was the UK government that said it was ok, probably being directed by scientist yes. But they didn't even know what they were looking at at the time. Based on the symptoms they just assumed it was the cow version scrapie, a sheep disease, which can't be passed on which was a massive over site. In this instance they at least know what they are dealing with, its structure and how it works.




#353808 Koi Herpes Virus

Posted by keleherr on 13 July 2016 - 09:42 PM

 

No offense James, Im not sure if you are disagreeing with me? because what you wrote supports most of my points;

 

1. What you said basically affirms what I said, it wont eradicate them, your making a guess that the numbers will remain impacted over time, but some scientists are arguing that you will remove the young carp which have become an important food source for some natives and by just leaving adult carp you could make the problem even worse for native fish. So even if you lower carp numbers this way you could decimate whats left of some native species, not just my opinion, there are scientists out there saying the same thing.

 

2. No point removing carp if your still going to allow chemicals and livestock destroy the waterways, natives cant recover in damaged waterways with or without carp present.

 

3. With your credentials I dont have to tell you that 30 years is a tiny window for an evolution study, and how many people are seriously looking at it? and look at those temp ranges, you will be looking at a stinking, rotting, polluted river nightmare every year or so, as numbers build up, with massive die offs as seasonal temps fluctuate, that could be super expensive to clean up every year and also completely ruin the rivers for people and all the native fish, its not just me thinking this, I have heard chatter about this by concerned scientists in the media.

 

4. There is a heap of herpes viruses being found lately, I just heard 2 new reports lately, one about sea turtles with a herpes strain, I dont want another herpes strain released here in our water thanks.

 

Cheers
Den :)

This argument seems to have shifted focus from spreading to people to it won’t fix it and will make the water stinky. It won’t completely remove koi but it will but it will help immensely, I’ll get back to that later. Immunity isn’t passed on genetically so yes the few adults that do survive will persist but won’t produce immune off spring. Initially yes there will be mass death but you will be amazed how fast the bacteria work etc. The fish kills that happen down south are huge but within a few weeks you wouldn’t even know it happened. Will it make the river crash? No it will hang on. Outbreaks have happened all over the world and the ecosystems haven’t collapsed. After the initial release you’re not going to have the same biomass turn up dead each year! The time between carp spawning and the virus kicking into full swing is not long. So there will be a bunch of fry to fingerlings karking it, you will hardly notice. Also if you knock off most the population they will produce a comparatively minuscule number of fry making the “die offs” unnoticeable. So there won’t be a smelly river full of dead fish on a yearly basis that will cost money to clean up.

Given the economic impact it has had on carp fisheries overseas it has had a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuge amount of time, money and resources spent on it, different cause but same knowledge sought.

Thirty years is a tiny window for an evolution study for higher order organisms but in terms of a virus that is billions of generations, also the sheer scale it has occurred on and not morphed demonstrates its stability. If it became zoonotic that would be the equivalent of a fish mutating into a dog. By the time that happens I’m sure the human race would have been wiped out or wiped themselves out some other way.

The turtle herpes strain has been around for a long time but like most things goes unnoticed till the media gets a hold of it. Outbreaks frequently happen after a cyclone when there isn’t much food and they get run down opening them up to infection, kinda like the ones people get on their mouths.

 

One thing I’ve noticed the naysays keep saying is IN THE MEDIA. The people who twist their info to get a good story are a reputable source of info yet a scientist working on something is not a reliable source? I’ve dealt with the media before and they twisted words like you wouldn’t believe and draw the most imaginative conclusion to what you say. There was a story on the news here on koi in the rivers a while ago. They were told in high numbers they can cause water quality issues but this turned into they are decimating native fish predating on them.

 

If Koi aren't actually taking anything away from the natives AS IS IN TODAYS STATE of condition, then they can only be a benefit, buy filling the missing gaps in the ecosystem that works better with rather than without.
You all go on about the predatory skills and sheer crazy savagery,,, if you know koi, they are week as piss,, no one can tell me the koi disrupt native breeding grounds, they may have, but not to impact.
The natives wouldn't give them a chance,,, the native species were well in trouble before koi got about.
There were badly effected inland systems in the past effected buy koi or carp, (same thing), but a lot of these were subject to drying out.
 

Koi have exacerbated our stuff ups and make any attempts to rectify them negligible. They eat away banks and stir up the bottom sediment which indirectly affects native fish. This means all the crap we have pumped in can’t settle into the substrate and remains in the water column causing water quality issues and as mentioned settles on aquatic veg killing it off. So you clean up your act and stop crap going into the water or reduce it but it makes no difference. The banks get eaten away and this screws up the riparian veg. You plant more or try to remediate sections but it gets eaten away again. So you now have a river with minimal riparian or aquatic veg meaning a number of native species have lost their breeding/feeding/hiding habitat and you have lost massive nutrient filter. Effectively carp have aided in creating an ideal habitat for themselves. Of course just removing carp alone won’t “fix” the river but it is a massive step forward to getting it there.

 

I understood that the main impact carp have on native fish populations is caused by habitat modification. Carp sift through and stir up sediment, dramatically increasing turbidity, sediments smother aquatic plants and kill them off and the habitat is transformed into one that does not support native fish but does support dirty water species. It's this behaviour that had Fisheries and Swan River Trust really worried about the brasiliensis in the Swan when we met with them a few years back because of the common name Eartheater. I'm not convinced they've measured any real impact of the brasiliensis on the river ecosystem - just annoys people that they are present, like dandelions in your lawn - but would be keen to hear your opinion on that James.

Not much has been done, since they started popping up everywhere the ball kinda got dropped. Caught them in huge number last year in the swan so I guess we will see. If anything I think they might compete for space.




#353433 Koi Herpes Virus

Posted by keleherr on 04 July 2016 - 11:56 PM

According to various media articles circulating, the virus can be spread by fish merely brushing past each other, and the virus can survive suspended in the water for several days without a host waiting to infect, so you are looking at your entire waterways filled with a fish herpes virus permanently! sounds so attractive, and what could possibly go wrong?

 

My problems with this proposed solution;

 

1. Firstly they admit it wont even work! they already know the fish will become resistant and their own studies show it wont eradicate them.

 

2. Various studies have shown(example link below) the disappearance of natives and the explosion of carp population is mainly due to human habit destruction, damns, water diversion, clearing, farming, mining, agriculture are the main causes of the problem, so they are not tackling the core of the problem.

 

3. Viruses can mutate - what long term studies can prove it wont mutate in 10 to 50 years to attack other fish or other animals, birds, people? When it reaches its peak saturation and you have virus rich waters, and reduced number of carp hosts, can a mutation jump to new hosts? Did you ever hear of swine flu or bird flu? viruses jumping hosts is not a new thing, maybe our government is jealous of these other countries having dangerous viruses skipping from animals to people, I guess a new fish flu epidemic could put us Aussies on the map!

 

4. Viruses can lay dormant without effecting a host and activate at any time to cause problems in the future - what study can guarantee its safety with humans and other species over long term?

 

5. Various viruses have been linked to cancers, this is still a fairly new discovery to science so we should not be messing with viruses while we still know bugger all about them.

 

There is no possible way they can have a study that guarantee's its safety 100%, I think there will be a strong movement against this virus release once people understand the risks and the fact its a plan that seems set for failure.

 

http://www.pestsmart...s_of_Carpv1.pdf

This isn’t a stab at you den, wheeled and dealed with you in the past and think you’re a good bloke, you have just summed up all the against arguments.

 

1. Mature individuals yes but their offspring will continue to be hit on the head. It won’t remove them but will lower numbers enough to make a difference.

 

2. 100% agree with you there but the high number of carp will make it impossible for any remediation to be effective.

 

3/4. The virus has persisted globally for around 30 years, replicated trillions upon trillions of times yet has not mutated enough to affect any other species of animal around the globe, even its closest relatives like the goldfish.  Isn’t that proof/study enough it won’t jump species, to salt water or order?

CyHV-3 also becomes dormant at 28 °C and completely shuts down at 30 °C. The human body temp it 37 °C so its proteins would likely disassociate at that temp. For it to survive within a warm blooded animal it would need a completely new set of genes and a whole new structure which is not possible by mutation alone. In the 30 years or so it has persisted people have still eaten carp carrying the virus and it still hasn’t become zoonotic.

 

3. Swine and bird flu are a completely different kettle of fish. Influenza is RNA based and there are tons of strains because of its ability to reassort its self and with other strains. They are essentially all the same thing influenza A, with different  cell surface antigens / proteins on the surface - hemagglutinin and neuraminidase. There 18 types of hemagglutinin and 11 neuraminidase giving you close to 200 combinations then each one of these combinations can have a variety of strains with different pathogenic profiles which all have the ability to chop and change with each other.

 

5. Cancer is a bunch of cells that have had their genes that regulate replication screwed with. Viruses have to be extremely specific to do this, in short they need the right genes and sequences to insert the right bit of code in the right place, CyHV-3 doesn’t have any of these and it can’t persist in the human body. 

 

At the risk of sounding like a knob but to prove I'm not talking out my ass my background is BSc Molecular Biology, BSc Biomedical science and work in freshwater fish research.

 

 

Syd your living in a fantasy world if you don't believe money and your employers objectives doesn't effect the science. If your getting paid to prove a certain theory that's what you will work on, if you go off on a tangent you will risk being fired, money can direct science, its a pretty simple fact of life that everyone knows, doesnt matter which job you are in, you do what your boss wants, science is no different.

 

Anyway I hope somehow we can stop this from happening, science already tells us in 10 years time we will still have the same carp problem, but it will be with virus infected carp, so its a complete waste of time and money.

In “research” you don’t just get money or get told to prove/disprove something you have to have an idea/theory/belief, make a proposal then apply for funding. Technicians just gather the data and might not care about the outcome but people leading the project/working together on something generally have common ground. People don't just get paid and told what to do they generally believe it but is science flawed/corrupt(money wise)? Yes but so is politics, religion, corporate, charities and everything else. Not saying it makes it right it’s just the way the world is.




#353378 Article: Pearl Cichlid Has Infiltrated The Swan And Canning Rivers

Posted by keleherr on 01 July 2016 - 10:12 PM



Any news on the best spots to find them and how badly they are damaging our waterways

everywhere, add kent street weir to this map

map_zpsevj0wx85.jpg+

 

Hard to say but the hoard is coming. Did some work on the bio of these guys, was mostly inverts from the substrate they ate


  • ice likes this


#353376 This Makes Me Sad

Posted by keleherr on 01 July 2016 - 09:41 PM

Keleherr

Moved on to greener pastures at the start of this year but still in the loop..........kinda

Just an update on this. A friend came over yesterday and said that he saw Murdoch Uni doing some kind of testing of the lake recently. Anyone know who I can contact at Murdoch Uni to see what they were doing? Would love to see if they are interested in eradicating feral carp

Do you mean Baler Reserve? Was probably people doing invert or water quality stuff.

This isn't me trying to shoot you down, I think it is good people care about natives, this is just what I've picked up over the years.

Most of Perth was built on swamp or ephemeral wetlands that dried out regularly locking nutrients into the substrate and never really had any natives in them, unless connected to a river. These reserves/wetlands/parks are essentially metropolitan drains for developments with a car park, lawn and a swing set. You now have a massively modified system receiving heaps more water, nutrients (from peoples lawn etc) and nasty crap (like hydrocarbons). Because these "wetlands" rarely dry out and receive a massive amount of nutrients they become for lack of a better word I can use a crap hole. In the grand scheme of things a few goldies aren't a big issue if its a closed system, Pygmy Perch might not even technically be native if they were stocked in this instance. I do agree more should be done but it should be in the rivers.

 

The only real way to remove introduced fish from a system is to get in before they establish a widespread population (like with the pearl cichlid........................) or drain the whole thing (like with the pearl cichlid........................). You can go in with nets etc, remove a few and feel good but at the end of the day time is money and the amounts dedicated to such tasks is enough to achieved SFA.

 

The red tape is also a joke. For a council to stock a pond the legit way with local genetic strain of native there is all kinds of hoops they have to just through and high costs so most of them say stuff it.

 

 

Sorry. Riverside dog park in Bayswater. Opposite Ascot race course.

That was probably the estuary group or students. Was there an English sounding bloke with them?




#349448 Fs: Breeding Setup

Posted by keleherr on 03 February 2016 - 08:55 PM


Tanks
Dimensions (length/width/height): 7- 3 x 2.5 x 18. 2x are divided and other 5 have air driven sump. All plumbed up with a 150l/ph air pump, heaters, filter media and sponge filters
Glass Thickness:6-10mm
Condition :Fair - good. not display quality but not bad. 1 tank has been patched
Age: had them 3 years, before that no idea
Stand: metal
Lids:yes
Price or ballpark figure: 1300
Shipping available? if you sort it all out
Photos: below

 

tanks_zpsswbsm8po.jpg