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PCS & Stuart M. Grant - Cichlid Preservation Fund - Details here


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Lichnochromis Acuticeps - Malawi Gar


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#41 humbug

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Posted 28 December 2014 - 09:45 PM

Interesting!  Currently I have my six in a tank with a colony of nine VC-10s and seven German bred blue dolphins.  All fish would be 12 cm (smallest dolphins) to 22 cm (largest lichno).  All get on surprisingly well.  I'm planning on pulling out the dominant male and two females and trying them in a separate tank soon.  I also have another 10 juvis arriving soon. 



#42 humbug

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Posted 17 March 2015 - 03:40 PM

Well at least its a start :)

 

lichno%20Large_zpsqyda6cg9.jpg

 



#43 dicky7

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Posted 17 March 2015 - 03:54 PM

Well done Kathy bet you are a happy mum :D



#44 humbug

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Posted 17 March 2015 - 04:13 PM

Of all the fish I'm keeping, these have been my "holy grail".  Just need to raise these guys, and hope that there are more in the future. 

I collected fry from my Aulonocara rostratum today - two species that it would be lovely to see in bigger numbers in the hobby.  Fingers crossed :)


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#45 LexAgate

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Posted 17 March 2015 - 09:27 PM

Cool pics Spilo.
 
These guys were notoriously hard to get to hold.


I believe egg tumblers are the big problem with holding fish! As the female fry learn mouth brooding from experience (their mother/fathers mouth) but tumblers teach them nothing! Sad to see them go! :(


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#46 humbug

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Posted 17 March 2015 - 09:49 PM

I agree completely!  I feel very strongly that the routine stripping of our fish is destroying their ability to brood their offspring.  It really struck home to me when I got German bred blue dolphins and witnessed some amazingly strong parenting behaviours - behaviours like we were seeing in virtually all of our fish in the 1980s, but are very uncommon these days. 

 

I generally separate females and allow them to release in their own time.  I then leave the female with the fry until the female loses interest in them. 

 

But, the conundrum then comes with a species such as the Lichnochromis. We are at real risk of losing these fish in Australia. I agonised over what to do with this mouthful.  They have only spawned once before and the female only held for a day.   I was going to be away from home for a week where I wouldn't be able to monitor the female in the colony, or on her own in a separate tank.  In the end I sold my soul to the devil.  I stripped her and tumbled the eggs.  As it was I lost half of them.  I'll never know if I made the right decision. At least I have some fry.  Next brood I will definitely be leaving her to spit when she is ready.

 



#47 LexAgate

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Posted 17 March 2015 - 09:57 PM

I agree completely!  I feel very strongly that the routine stripping of our fish is destroying their ability to brood their offspring.  It really struck home to me when I got German bred blue dolphins and witnessed some amazingly strong parenting behaviours - behaviours like we were seeing in virtually all of our fish in the 1980s, but are very uncommon these days. 
 
I generally separate females and allow them to release in their own time.  I then leave the female with the fry until the female loses interest in them. 
 
But, the conundrum then comes with a species such as the Lichnochromis. We are at real risk of losing these fish in Australia. I agonised over what to do with this mouthful.  They have only spawned once before and the female only held for a day.   I was going to be away from home for a week where I wouldn't be able to monitor the female in the colony, or on her own in a separate tank.  In the end I sold my soul to the devil.  I stripped her and tumbled the eggs.  As it was I lost half of them.  I'll never know if I made the right decision. At least I have some fry.  Next brood I will definitely be leaving her to spit when she is ready.

 


Now that they are damaged fish in this way it is very difficult to fight the problems and attempt to teach them the ways! The only good option is the worst sounding one you will have to use a tumbler :( now this is not that bad I have to do this with my german ngara flametail colony, if their egg don't hatch in 10 days they spit :( so I wait till 7-9 the tumble (currently 3 holding :) ) but it's hard to think this and I wouldn't know much about the 1980's as I am younger (12-15)


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#48 humbug

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 07:07 AM

Perhaps we should be starting a new thread on this.   I suppose I don't think its that black and white.  Just because fish have been stripped, I don't think we should be writing them off as damaged goods. 

 

I suspect that there are two aspects of strong parenting behaviour - instinct and learnt.  Problem is that stripping fish works against both.  If fry aren't brooded by the parent, and I mean right through to release by the female and post-release care, then they aren't exposed to the aspects which are learnt. But in the wild individuals of a species which don't have a strong parenting behaviour wouldn't successfully produce fry to contribute to the next generation - natural selection in action.  By stripping we are artificially allowing fry from poor mothers to survive.

But just because we have fish that have poor parenting abilities doesn't mean we have to give up!  As an example I'll use my milomo colony of 2 males, 6 females.  All of the females spawn regularly.  To begin with none were holding to full term.  I left them be.  After a few spawns two of the females are holding to full term.  I'm collecting fry from them.  These fish have the strongest instincts of those in the group.  Fry from these individuals are the ones which would survive in the wild.  The fry are learning behaviours from the mother.  Hopefully the behaviours will be stronger in this next generation than if I'd just decided from day one that I'd strip.  If this continues with successive generations more and more of the fish should be good parents.

The practice of stripping fish is relatively new, and has crept into the hobby from America.  Its far less prevalent in Europe!  It concerns me that people new to the hobby are being encouraged to strip almost as if its the only option. 

 

There is a lot more to keeping these fish than churning out fry!!!  I personally think we need to consider the future and the harm that today's practices are potentially doing to our fish of tomorrow.  But even ignoring that - from a purely personal, selfish standpoint . . . . . . watching a female hap brooding a group of fry, dotting over them, collecting food and depositing it amongst the fry so they don't struggle to feed . . . . some of the greatest pleasures of keeping cichlids, and so many cichlid keepers have never seen it!!! 

 


Edited by humbug, 18 March 2015 - 07:18 AM.





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