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True Or False?


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#1 Androo

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 03:10 PM

I saw this add ages ago. Is this a well known fact or a load of bull poop?

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#2 Mattymak

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 03:15 PM

Just look at his grammar, lol.



#3 Androo

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 03:20 PM

True, he has a high level of English. But are they stronger if bred in cold water? Because all my bn breed in cold water. My thoughts are big woop. Still want to know if its fact or not

#4 Mattymak

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 03:44 PM

Not sure man, bigjohnno will know!



#5 MrLeifBeaver

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 03:56 PM

Calling Bigjohno to isle wtf!



#6 Androo

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 04:05 PM

The ad is still up so I'm not sure if he sold all his fry. And such a good sales pitch.

#7 ant86

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 08:50 PM

Lol that's funny as, wonder if he was drunk when writing this!!

#8 Bickley

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 09:04 PM

Well here's a way to tell its bollocks... Who hear has bred bn in a heated tank ???? Now what was your survival rate ??? Don't know bout everyone else but I have never had a survival rate anywhere near as low as 40%

#9 Androo

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 09:11 PM

So very true. But I'm curious as to where he got his figures and if he conned anyone into it

#10 Buccal

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 10:01 PM

Definetely c o c k n bull.

Edited by Buccal, 09 August 2013 - 10:02 PM.


#11 scotty81

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 11:11 PM

I don't think you need Johno to work that out

#12 sandgroper

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 11:24 PM

My bristlenose slowed right down at 18 degrees and died at 14 degrees. I left them in my outside pond under the patio, 19 in total, so i'd say bull-da-dash.



#13 bigjohnnofish

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 02:22 AM

lol.... doesnt matter on temperature... if parents breed its because they think the water conditions are suitable to raise fry in....

 

as for outside i had about 20 b/n this year that went the distance to 10 degrees before snap freeze dead... if temp drops slowly they last longer... but if you get a big temp drop overnight they die much quicker... previous years they were dying off 12-14 degrees... 15 degrees and above was ok for them... definitely werent interested in breeding around 15 degrees and not really interested at 20 degrees either... but between 20 and 30 degrees is ideal IMO



#14 werdna

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 10:14 AM

I had them breeding in my 8ft tank without a heater in winter.

The water hit 12 degrees and they were fine. Still eating as normal



#15 Buccal

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 12:48 PM

Ocassionly there are breeding pairs that are absolute machine baby makers,,,, these will likely breed in less favorable situations.
But the original question of them becoming a hardier fish bred in cold water is sheer fallacy.
Breeding a generation or two in cold water does not make them genetically stronger for tough conditions as that funny advertisement is trying to imply by self propping.

#16 werdna

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 01:08 PM

The rainbow trout sourced from Pemberton are known to have the best tolerance to warm water.

This is due to unintentional line breeding. The more tolerant ones to high temperatures live through the heat waves.

These become the breeding stock.

 

My bristlenose had been bred in tanks that progressively got cooler and cooler in winter.

Each generation tends to be line bred to tolerate the cooler extremes as the ones that make it to breeding size have lasted through the cold winter water.

 

Whether the advertiser is a knob or not doesn't matter, I believe that it is possible.



#17 Buccal

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 01:33 PM

Absolutely I agree, but like the intense line breeding trout programs, it takes extensive and constant selection and environment subjection.
But for the add to say if they are not bred in cold water only 40% survive is ludicrous.
Ok,, they tuffen up a little bred in cold water to survive cold water better,,, is this a good thing ????, no it's not,,, it's likely weakening them for warmer water which is where most usually end up,,, I think steering their adaptations for cooler water is not so good when I think of summer heat waves.
They are also likely to desire higher oxygenated water being that warmer water holds less oxygen.

Obviously with the way this person spoke he's not seeming full bottle,,,, aside from the obvious English problem.

I would never detest the wonderful outcomes of adaptions,,,, these days Discus are kept happy in a ph of 7.2.

#18 werdna

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 02:53 PM

But for the add to say if they are not bred in cold water only 40% survive is ludicrous.

I agree, hence mentioning he is a knob

Ok,, they tuffen up a little bred in cold water to survive cold water better,,, is this a good thing ????, no it's not,,, it's likely weakening them for warmer water which is where most usually end up,,, I think steering their adaptations for cooler water is not so good when I think of summer heat waves.
They are also likely to desire higher oxygenated water being that warmer water holds less oxygen.

This sounds like more BS than the gumtree ad to me.
The mentioned trout don't die off in cold water.
And I know some of my BN ended up in tanks with 28-30 degree water without any issues.

I would never detest the wonderful outcomes of adaptions,,,, these days Discus are kept happy in a ph of 7.2.

So are you suggesting these Discus are weakened in a soft water?



#19 Buccal

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 04:15 PM

Nope n nope.
The only part I disagree in this is 40% survival rate in warm water.
These LIGHT adaptations are just that.
You say cool water bred bn make them cool water tolerable,,,,, well no more than it would make them less tolerable of warm water.
This is all hypertheticals.
You see, this whole fish keeping thing is jammed pack full of contradictions and controdictive outcomes.
I merely mentioned discus for the adaptational side of things due to repetitive breeding in unfavorable environments.
Now here this, and really,,,, please don't challenge,,,, some of these further progressed quality import discus actually show better color and are happier in 7.2 than say 6.5,,,, this is definite,,,,,, all the Malaysian hatcheries run over 7ph.

Werdna, you seem to always look past the point of things, and break down into quotes and challenge to try and prove wrong.
When I mentioned temp hardiness,, you switched the topic to ph and tried to torch me.
I see this as mild warfare of mind game literacy.
Last one to answer is king of the mountain.
Maybe all my comments right now will be broken down and challenged by showing up somehow my way of thinking is obscured.
I'm quite sure others may even be scared to have a say what's on their mind.

Many years of breeding slowly curbing preferables until the species tolerate a new normal will shift tolerances.
Did you ask your bn if they felt just as comfortable ????? What did they say ???? Lol
Subtle adaptations are really not much noticed.

When my breeding water drops below 24.c my bn stop breeding and when raised to 26.c like clockwork they breed.
Six segregated pairs of various types, all triggering at same time.
Yours breed in cooler,,,,,, mine don't,,,,

Bn's can equally be made to feel happy in cool water or warm water,,, but not create 60% death rate one way or the other.

Just wanted to add, that these curved tolerances will not appear just by breeding in a changed environment for a year or two.
As for the discus with a changed tolerance,,, this is due to dedicated extremely long term breeding in changing environments,, For longer than a lot of pcs members have lived so far !!!!!.
The trout hatcheries are similar.
The back yard man claiming his fish are somehow specially bred to suit a particular situation I'm sure most people are just gunna smirk at.

Edited by Buccal, 10 August 2013 - 04:29 PM.


#20 werdna

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 04:57 PM

If I look past things, you work on the theory that if you write some 2 page BS monologue full of hypothetical, non substantiated personal theory you will bore people with a win.

 

I'm sorry, you mentioned the ph first, not me.

 

I am stating a FACT.

MY bn bred in 12 degree water.

I made a conclusion from my results that seemed to answer Androo's question.

 

You can come up with stupid statements in an attempt to make me look silly like

Did you ask your bn if they felt just as comfortable ????? What did they say ????

However, they were breeding.

So that tells me a lot.

Especially when Johnno states this

 doesnt matter on temperature... if parents breed its because they think the water conditions are suitable to raise fry in....

 

So, I suppose, yes, I did ask them, and they were very happy and comfortable.

 

Smirk all you like.






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