26 replies to this topic

[posiedon]

Hi went through the wa fisheries sight and couldnt find anything saying i couldnt just wondering if i can import L046 from the UK or from Brazil?

[Krystal]

No they are not a permitable import....no exceptions.

I think you would find they are not allowed to be exported from Brazil due to the natural population being depleted.....that was last i heard.

[posiedon]

Well i guess you just have to rely on the breeders in australia....

With that being said how do you go about protecting lines and inbreedin..

Only interested because im keen on giving it a go myself there an awsome fish.

[Krystal]

Firstly you need to put forward about $800+ for 5cm sized catfish......Then painstakingly wait for them to mature.

Im sure there are new bloodlines coming in continuously......have you ever wondered how they got here to begin with considering they are not an allowable import?

The only problem with breeding them is obviously you want to sell the offspring......this can create issues because if the authorities take notice they may make an example of you.

Not trying to be negative but people who have Zebs are very very quiet about it.....one guy had his house broken into because of these fish, another had his house raided.

[Scat]

Firstly you need to put forward about $800+ for 5cm sized catfish......

Wow thats cheap Krystal !!

They are big $$$ as Krystal says and slow growers, breeding pairs have been going for $6000 lately over east.

Cheers
Craig

[Mr_docfish]

And the fact that these fish were only discovered recently (or at least described) the biodiversity act of 1999 states that the feds can confiscate any and all of these fish and their progeny as they were not imported prior to the 1982 Quarantine laws when the current import list was created..... there is no contesting this law... recently, people in Perth have had fish confiscated under this law..... so if you have them and /or breed them, dont tell anyone - if you get dobbed in, you will loose it all.

not being a sour puss.... just realistic... there are a number of people out there that would be jealous enough to rat others in...

[posiedon]

there are a number of people out there that would be jealous enough to rat others in...

Thats pathetic..........

[sandgroper]

What hope have we got when we turn on each other.

[bigjohnnofish]

i dont think the authorities will police the zebras.... they are definitely not a noxious fish... they are being freely traded throughout australia... there would be hundreds if not thousands of these fish in australia... chances of them being discarded or dumped - is zero... people have trouble keeping them alive in aquariums - their chance of survival in australian waters would be extremely low if not zero... and breeding in the wild could only be said to be a dream.... IMO they are a perfect aquarium fish along with several other l-number species.... one day i think zebras will be released back into the wild... wouldnt it be great if australia, UK, germany, USA etc all got together and repopulated zebra numbers in their natural habitat...

there are plenty of other fish that genuinely pose a risk to our natural water ways.... (who let the gambusia out?)

[Codfather]

I imported zebras back in the nineties. I got caught and fined for it, but the progeny of those fish are out there, and I would think are legal. The offence was only my original importation and I've already paid for that. Is it an offence to sell the descendents of illegally imported fish.

[Fox]

Ouch.. Was the fine heavy?

[Codfather]

The fine was $5000 in 1997 (I think), but the fish were only $40ea from Japan. Too hard to resist at the time.

[Westie]

yeah they're a beautiful fish
no doubt there's a black market out there
not that i condone it, but wow what a cash cow that would be breeding them

[Mr_docfish]

I imported zebras back in the nineties. I got caught and fined for it, but the progeny of those fish are out there, and I would think are legal. The offence was only my original importation and I've already paid for that. Is it an offence to sell the descendents of illegally imported fish.

Biodiversity act of 1999 states that any fish and their progeny can be confiscated if the fish are known to have been illegally obtained (smuggled) and any progeny of these fish.... the onus is on the owner to keep records of proof that these fish were imported legally prior to 1982

Possession of listed regulated live specimens
(6) A person is guilty of an offence if:
(a) the person has in the person’s possession, in the Australian
jurisdiction, a specimen; and
( b ) the specimen is a regulated live specimen that is included in
Part 2 of the list referred to in section 303EB, and the person
is reckless as to that fact; and
© the specimen does not belong to a native species; and
(d) either:
(i) the specimen was unlawfully imported; or
(ii) the specimen was not imported, but any of the
specimens of which it is the progeny was unlawfully
imported.

The Environment Protection and Biodiversity Conservation Act 1999 can be found here:
Vol 1
http://www.comlaw.go...s99Vol1WD02.pdf

Vol 2
http://www.comlaw.go...s99Vol2WD02.pdf

of which, Volume 2 pertains to the live importation of animals and plants that we are dealing with here - see pages 62 and 106 of Vol 2


Sorry Codfather....... rules is rules.....

and I have heard that more have recently "arrived" ... the new rate starts from $800ea if you buy 10+

I have an import permit to protect...... so I cant touch them.

[bigjohnnofish]

tax department requires you to keep receipts for a period of only 7 years... so how can someone be expected to keep receipts for fish bought pre 1982...??????
i bet they werent thinking "i better keep my receipt in case some beauracrat 25 years into the future wants to take my fish away from me"
whats stopping someone coming up with a dodgy receipt and saying its legit.... prove its not ???

lets all vote mr.docfish for prime minister... at least then someone will actually know what a fish is !!!!

[Codfather]

Thanks Oliver. Hopefully zebras will make the legal list eventually.

[Juls]

It's a interesting issue what is legal and what is not,

Consider that cherry shrimp have been in the country about 5-7 years, yet they are sold redily at every fish shop in Perth,

It seems to me in a majority of cases the authorities are turning a blind eye, however I can see that they would be more interested in a fish worth $1000 rather than a shrimp worth 50 cents.

I can see on one hand the fish shops having to be very careful about what they import buy on the other not being too concerned about what is traded in, is there some kind of gentlemans agreement with the authorities that the hobbiests are not aware of?

Juls

[Mr_docfish]

There is no gentleman agreement issue... for shops like Aquotix, we have an import permit, and we often get looked at when new fish arrive in Perth, and questions get asked.... so if we stock and sell fish that have been pointed out to us as an issue either here or in other states, then we have to been seen as abiding by the rules... as was said earlier, the L046s have been intercepted and confiscated (on more than one occasion, and we have been told about it directly), so we have to hold off on selling these fish directly so as not to be seen as condoning the trade in fish known to have been smuggled..... however, after some time, if the heat wears off, then things will change - and the cherry shrimp that are over plentiful all over Australia are one of those examples. The difference is not the value, and not to the authorities, but to those that are jealous.... the authorities will normally only act on public information, and because of our shop size, we often get a visit from fisheries or questioned by AQIS on subjects relating to noxious & smuggled species - often in the hope that we will pass on messages to smaller LFS and other importers. The best example of this is the issue of the sale of Gambusia..... we used to sell them many years ago, until we got a visit from Fisheries... not just once.... and yet other LFS close to us and elsewhere (still to this day) still sell Gambisia freely..... not that the loss of sales of Gambisia is an issue for us, I never liked dealing in them anyway, but the fact we got singled out proves there are jealous people out there.....

[Juls]

It is clear in any case, that it's one hell of a grey area as to what is acceptable and what is not.. that is for sure.

I would assume that roughly 80-90% of fishkeepers are keeping at least one species that according to the law, is illegal.

Juls

[Mr_docfish]

yes the grey area for us is even cloudier when new fish "imports" are available all over the forums and we have to decide when it is "acceptable" for us to obtain them without getting the third degree from the authorities.