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"black Widow" Frontosa


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#1 Chris Perth

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Posted 09 December 2016 - 02:12 PM

Attached File  FB_IMG_1481251241428.jpg   59.61KB   34 downloads

Saw these on frontosa junkies facebook site, They are a linebred variety presumably for the aquarium trade.

I personally think that they are terrible compared to the true type frontosas. I would be interested in others views of these fish.
a) Do you like them? and b would you buy them and breed them?

#2 Stormfyre

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Posted 09 December 2016 - 03:07 PM

They look terrible. I hate when they pick faulty genes like patched out bars and aim to mass produce it. 

 

This to me is as bad as Flowerhorns. its ugly, its inbred and why anyone would want that crap is beyond me.



#3 Mattia

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Posted 09 December 2016 - 03:08 PM

Disgusting

#4 malawiman85

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Posted 09 December 2016 - 03:54 PM

Ewwww

A bit like:



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#5 sandgroper

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Posted 09 December 2016 - 04:11 PM

That's a BIG no and no. Selectively line breeding a fault like this is for MORONS. You could do this to all fish that have barring, by picking the worst of each batch to breed from. People should be doing the opposite and only selecting the very best to breed from that are true to form and by doing so strengthening the species not weakening it. Breed for our future don't destroy it.



#6 humbug

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Posted 09 December 2016 - 04:21 PM

I agree - they do nothing at all for me!  But one saving grace, at least this doesn't impact their health.  I find fish like balloon mollies, parrot fish, etc abhorrent.  Why deliberately breed fish ( . . . . or dogs . . . . or cats) with defects which affect their ability to live a decent life?


Edited by humbug, 09 November 2017 - 02:39 PM.


#7 sandgroper

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Posted 09 December 2016 - 04:28 PM

:agreed: If we eliminated all of the MORONS in the World Humbug, the Earth would be a BEAUTIFUL place. :agreed:



#8 Hood

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Posted 09 December 2016 - 04:36 PM

This is old. These were around ten years ago. Someone just line bred the broken bar fronts together. I have not seen them in aus. But like all things. If you don't like them don't buy them. Getting on your soapbox only make those 'morons' want them more usually. ;) Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited by Hood, 09 December 2016 - 04:39 PM.


#9 humbug

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Posted 09 December 2016 - 04:46 PM

They are definitely in Australia.



#10 Hood

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Posted 09 December 2016 - 04:48 PM

Cool. Well don't buy them humbug and you won't have a problem. :)
In the end our stores and wholesalers gotta make money to stay in business and get the fish we want. So they still gotta supply what others want too.
You can't have a go at them for that.


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#11 Hood

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Posted 09 December 2016 - 10:04 PM

Maybe if I re-iterate. I understand everyone wants the most pure fish retained and in our tanks and preserved. Which I commend and 100% agree with. If we ever want any chance of educating people otherwise. We need to allow them to get hooked. Seriously hooked on the hobby. Emotionally invested as we are. If that starts because of a ballon Molly or a black widow frontosa(for example) they originally just thought looked cute or cool. So be it I say. If that then means they fall in love with that animal one day (or the 20th one later, sorry little guys) that they may want to try to find out more, and we (as hobby aquarists) are here and welcoming. Then they learn and the ranks of informed aquarists will grow. And we then have more demand for the fish we desire and we have a chance for the hobby to grow. I can then only hope this then leads to an appreciation for all animals. Unfortunately it is human nature for most people to constantly chase something that is new or different to everyone else. And I believe this coupled with the fact that everyone intrinsically tends to be drawn to the pretty colourful fish at first. Is why stores and wholesalers are driven to supply the fish they do. It's an unfortunate fact. But as I said above. If it has the power to lead to a chain reaction that we assist, then that is a powerful movement that can be used for real change. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited by Hood, 09 December 2016 - 10:06 PM.


#12 Bostave

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Posted 10 December 2016 - 07:52 AM

I personally don't think it is that bad. The fish aren't hybrids so that is good. Many domesticated fish have been subjected to similar fates. Angelfish (platinum, blue marble,etc), discus. (leopards, turquoise, etc), rams (golden,green,long fins), tetras have many strains which have been developed from variations from the wild forms and many of these are beautiful.

#13 Poncho

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Posted 10 December 2016 - 08:51 AM

Don't like these fish personally and wouldn't buy them. I don't hate them though - they just "are" and haven't compromised my ability to keep the types of frontosa that I do like. I also prefer the true to type freddies rather than Xanthic form and if I found a longfin bristlenose in my tank I would catch it out and step on it.

I do like the marbled fenestratus over the natural true to type form. Those I would buy and keep and breed. Different fish but same kind of situation. Like Hood is trying to say - if it floats your boat and doesn't impact anyone else, then I see no problem

#14 Chris Perth

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Posted 10 December 2016 - 10:15 AM

Interesting range of views, my question is that if these are bred to true types (unknowingly or not) are we weakening both types?. Also when I next buy what is purported to be a 6 bar frontosa in the future (assuming as Humbug says the black widows are in Oz), I would have no idea if it was the offspring of a black widow and a true type as presumably they would throw roughly 50/50 of black widow and true type but would be a weakened version? Those in turn would throw 75/25 of one type or the other?. I am not a genetics expert so hence my questions.

Edited by Chris Bell, 10 December 2016 - 10:19 AM.


#15 Chopstick_mike

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Posted 10 December 2016 - 10:26 AM

Yes it does put the risk out there for that just means we will need to buy from more trusted sources if you are looking for pure species which most of us do on here any way

#16 sandgroper

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Posted 10 December 2016 - 11:24 AM

The thing is for me is that it does nothing to enhance the original type, in fact it does the complete opposite and down grades it 99% of the time imo. There are always the odd exception but they are few and far between. I also breed parrots and with all the mutation around these days it's hard to get a natural type that breeds true to form. Is this the future we want for our fish? Why take a beautiful fish and breed the colour or marking out of it :o . It just doesn't make sense and if it doesn't make sense then it must be wrong :)



#17 Hood

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Posted 10 December 2016 - 11:43 AM

Getting angry at the situation doesn't change it and often will drive the accused underground and to more dodgy practices or outright lying. Being open and kind is more likely to make people feel they can be open about keeping such species/strains. Which means you can much more easily track where they are, who is keeping them and breeding them and thus making it easier to avoid and help make sure they don't get mixed into pure strains, by then being forthcoming with information in the nicest possible way to help educate them.


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#18 Peckoltia

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Posted 14 December 2016 - 07:54 PM

http://www.perthcich...620#entry357729

 

what do you think?



#19 sandgroper

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Posted 17 December 2016 - 10:46 PM

If it was a mutation, i think you would have to say the original looks much better. Sure it looks different but that alone does not make it better looking. So no i wouldn't breed from it but it's probably due to hormone and stress.



#20 LexAgate

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Posted 18 December 2016 - 03:21 PM

I can't decide if it looks good or bad but definitely different, I wouldn't buy or breed them, but I have seen people breed what they like to think are normal fronties and have had these mutations show through in the fry, which is showing that it isn't anything harmful that we know of, still way above the dyeing and injecting ect


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