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Fungus on peppermint catfish


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#1 ikan

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Posted 30 August 2004 - 05:19 PM

In the last week or so I have noticed that my grow out peppermint tank has been infected by fungus that looks like cotton wool. I have lost half a dozen or so young peppermints. The fungus (might be bacteria) usually start on the mouth, some grows on the body.
I have been doing a lot of water changes but I think I will have to medicate them. I use Metafix?, Australian brand with picture of discus on it. They seem to telerate it but I dont' know how effective.
Can anyone suggest what I need to do to fix the problem?



#2 Mysterious Redsuns

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Posted 30 August 2004 - 11:22 PM

i have got the same problem with an adult. the male has got fungus on his whole bottom half of the body. when i first saw him looking bad, he had lost all his skin... so basicaly you can only see like the bare flesh... not a great site but i thought it would heal, a day later and i see fungus all over the flesh that was bare.

have treated it with MELAFIX for about a week and it seems the fungus is dissappearing... but the skin has not regrown yet so could be some time off.



#3 ikan

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Posted 30 August 2004 - 11:31 PM

I think I am treating the fish with the same medication (the one with picture of discus on the lable) and smlee like tea tree???

Did you change the diet of your fish or introduce a new food by any change?



#4 Mysterious Redsuns

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Posted 31 August 2004 - 01:47 AM

i did a lot of things. i even chucked a new pair in the tank... i just dont know whos who in the tank which is the problem.



#5 Guest_Alan Caboolture_*

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Posted 01 September 2004 - 02:25 AM

Ikan,

Have you got a pet Vet you can consult ???

Your problem sound a lot like "mouth fungus", which actually starts out as a bacterial infection. Are you using bare bottom tanks ???

See if you can get some Mysteclin-V 250mg, or some other medication with tetracycline, nystatin, and sodium hexametaphosphate. This will cover the bacteria and fungal infection and is safe with ancistrus.

Dase rate,,,,250mg / 50 liters ,,,25% water change after third day, and each day till water clears. (This stuff turns the water red)

Alan

When life gives you lemons ask for a bottle of tequila & salt



#6 ikan

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Posted 01 September 2004 - 05:36 PM

Redsuns & Alan thanks for the reply.

Alan, can you help me with the name of medications that I can buy from lfs. I don't know a vet.
Medication is not the area that I know much. I didn't have to use them much in the last 3 years.
The tank is almost bare bottom, only 1/4 of the bottom is covered by a thin layer of gravels.
I also noticed one of the Rams has a pop eye.
I searched the net for medications but my LFS don't sell them. I live in Perth and I am willing to get it from any LFS in Perth.
Thanks



#7 goldcolour

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Posted 01 September 2004 - 07:47 PM

Hi Ikan
long time ago i spoke to a pcs committee (cant remember who as it was like donkey years back) he told me that he usually carries strong medication for his fish incase of any outbreaks ,,,u might try the pcs committee first as they probably can direct you where to go .... good luck



#8 Mysterious Redsuns

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Posted 01 September 2004 - 11:34 PM

vet medicines are sometimes very similar to normal pharmaceuticals.

you may find that some of these medications are found in a pharmacy but just not how strong they are.



#9 ikan

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Posted 02 September 2004 - 05:44 PM

I don't think Melafix has worked. Lost another 7 yesterday and today. I am trying multi cure medication by aqua-serene. Hopefully I got better result.



#10 Mysterious Redsuns

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Posted 03 September 2004 - 01:23 AM

hmm i just checked that u can get tetracycline from a chemist but its prescription only.

my fish seems to be recovering. the fungus is nearly all gone and i hope his skin will heal. i hope u figure ur one out.



#11 Guest_Alan Caboolture_*

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Posted 03 September 2004 - 06:49 AM

I am not familier with that brand of "Multi Cure"but if it is the same as Aqua Master, Aquarium Pharmacuticles, or Aristo Pet, it contains Malachite green and Acraflavine both of which are deadly to ancistrus catfish.

DON'T !!!!

Alan



#12 mtchye

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Posted 03 September 2004 - 06:10 PM

Hi Hendi,

If it is bacterial based the best antibacterial I've found for external infections is the triple sulfa based tablets you can find in aquarium shops. These do kill your filter bacteria too so it might be wise to cut down feeding to bare minimum and do water changes.

I've used it with normal bristlenoses in the tank with no problem.

I agree with alan that most catfish dont seem to like the multi cure type acriflavine/malachite/formaldehyde mixes often sold for fungus cures.

Admittedly though I havent had a case of fungus for a long time so I can only suggest the trisulfa antibacterials if in fact others have found that it has a root bacterial cause.

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#13 ikan

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Posted 06 September 2004 - 06:33 PM

Thanks for the suggestion guys.
I finally got tetracycline from Veba's (old stocks). Most other shops don't have them. I noticed that many LFS sell tri_sulfa but because I have not heard people using it for ancitrus I didn't want to try it. But now I know that it would be the next option if I can't find tetracyline.
The peppermints are doing better now though I have not use the tetracycline yet. They are still on other medication ??....tetracycline that I got from LFS that they use to treat their treatment tank. I just put another doze on Sunday and I will do another on Wednesday. The multicure contains malachite green and I lost few fish that I think were already very weak and has fungus, I have changed the water a couple of times since.
No sign of fungus in the tank now but I can see that some fish are still breathing fast. I don't know if this is caused by bacteria or the medication.
I also notice that one of the royal whiptail catfish on another tank has a bloated stomach and I have put it in the treated tank. I treat the other tank with Melafix just as a precaution and no sign of distress and fish are still very active.
The bloated stomachs I have will be cured by the medication too. We'll see in few days.

Thanks again guys.



#14 ikan

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Posted 08 September 2004 - 09:12 PM

Just an update. They are doing well no more fungus and bloated stomachs and are eating very well.
Thanks for your help.



#15 Guest_Alan Caboolture_*

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Posted 08 September 2004 - 10:26 PM

Well that is good news Ikan,

Glad we got that one right... Is often quite difficult to diagnose diseases without seeing the fish, but your case sounded like typical "Mouth Fungus" which can be very devistating. Trouble is it is not really a fungus infection and fungus cures are not much help.

That is what this forum is all about,,,sharing knowledge and experience.

Alan.



#16 ikan

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Posted 15 September 2004 - 07:29 PM

The fungus is back. I see some fish with fungus on their skin (looks like cotton wool). It's still on full dose on tetracycline. Now I will have to try other medication. Obviously it's not the right one. Last night I increased the water temp to 30 C from 26. I also added some medication for ick last night.
I am beginning to suspect that the disease got picked up while I was cleaning the cannister filter on the backyard. I placed the filter media on brick paving and it was after rain and some manure could have got to the filter. The fungus was seen few days after that.
Can anyone recommend me other medication for fungus?



#17 dondon

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Posted 20 September 2004 - 04:43 PM

i have got the same problem with my peppermints. i havent found anything to cure it. my water quality is good, the only thing i did different is add some plants from a lfs (not blaming them for the problem though) and about a week later i lost one peppermint i put it down to the bigger peppermints bullying the smaller ones so i moved the bigger one to a different tank. The next day all the smaller ones were growing a fungus. the bigger ones seem fine but i treated them with the meth green at half the recommended dose as a precaution, i now see that ur not supposed to give meth green to b/ns. the fungus started around the head of the fish and then moved down the body. its grey looking and has a cotton wool like appearance. it also seems to attack the stomachs as they seem bloated. its a horrible problem 2 have. it leaves u feeling helpless. anyways if u have found a cure let me know.

#18 mtchye

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Posted 20 September 2004 - 05:50 PM

Hi guys,

This sort of bacteria may have developed a resistance to your average LFS antibiotic. You could try lincospectin from a rural supply store which is a combination broad spectrum antibiotic that treats gram negative infections like columnaris. As far as I know its not commonly used in the aquarium trade so your strain of bacteria may not yet be resistant to it. Metronidazole is also another antibiotic that has activity against gram negatives so if you have access to that you could try that too.

Lincospectin is treated at 1 to 2ml /100l, start at the lower dose.
Metro at 6ppm, (6 milligrams per litre) redosed daily for the first 3 days, then water change at day 5.

HTH
Vincent

p.s. tetracycline is almost useless these days due to misuse by wholesalers... There is a lot of info on columnaris out there, might be worth googling it to see if you can find any drugs available to you.

#19 mtchye

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Posted 20 September 2004 - 06:09 PM

Found some info on columnaris treatment, it seems potassium permanganate is effective against it at the standard 2ppm treatment rate. Permanganate is easy to obtain from the chemist but you need a very sensitive scale (measuring to 0.1 or 0.5 of a gram) to use it accurately. I'll post some details on how to use permanganate but must stress that it is very toxic if you get the dosage wrong. If you are in doubt and dont understand the measurements email me with your tank volume and I'll calculate it for you. I usually use the second method of dosing at 2ppm and watching to see how long the purple colour lasts.

Heres the info on how to use it:

Potassium permanganate oxidizes
organic matter and is generally
used to treat external columnaris
in ponds at 2 mg/l (5.4 pounds
per acre-foot) or at a higher concentration
if the waterÕs organic
load is high. The amount of
KMnO4 used to treat columnaris
is based on the 15-minute KMnO4
demand test. This is useful to
determine the potential cost of a
permanganate treatment. To conduct
the test, a 500 mg/l KMnO4
stock solution is prepared by
adding 0.5 gram of KMnO4 to 1
liter of distilled water. Then four,
1-liter beakers are each filled with
500 milliliters of the fish culture
water to be treated. The KMnO4
stock solution is added to make
KMnO4 concentrations of 1, 3, 5
and 7 milligrams per liter. To
attain these concentrations, 1 milliliter
of stock solution is added to
the first beaker, 3 milliliters to the
second, 5 milliliters to the third,
and 7 milliliters to the fourth.
After 15 minutes one of the four
concentrations will be slightly
pink and one will be clear. The
concentration to select for treatment
is the one that falls between
these two. Multiply this concentration
by a factor of 2.5, and use
that concentration of KMnO4 to
treat the culture water containing
the infected fish.
For example, if the beaker containing
3 mg/l KMnO4 has a
slight pink color after 15 minutes,
and the beaker with 1 mg/l
KMnO4 has lost its pink color and
is clear, then 2 mg/l is used and
multiplied by 2.5 to obtain a treatment
rate of 5 mg/l of KMnO4.
When the calculated quantity of
KMnO4 is applied to the body of
water to be treated, the red color
should persist for at least 4 hours.
A more traditional treatment is to
dissolve 2 mg/l KMnO4 directly
in the water that needs to be treated,
watching the water to ensure
that it remains red for a full 4
hours. It is suggested that this
treatment be applied in early
morning in order to have enough
daylight to observe the water
color. If the KMnO4 oxidizes to a
brown color (due to the waterÕs
organic load) before the 4-hour
treatment period is reached, then
an additional 2 mg/l should be
added to the water. This is
repeated until the red color can be
maintained for the full treatment
time. For maximum safety this
method of treatment should be
followed even if the permanganate
demand of the water has
been determined.


#20 mtchye

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Posted 20 September 2004 - 06:15 PM

On that note, does anyone have an accurate electronic scale that can measure down to the gram?

Otherwise I hear that pharmacists will measure small quantities for you if you are nice lol..

Cheers
Vincent




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