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What L144's Really Are


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#1 bigjohnnofish

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 01:35 AM

i get asked this a million times... well maybe not a million but a lot :)

 

what we have in australia is a leucistic b/n derived from the common bristlenose... just another colour morph....

 

http://www.planetcat...?species_id=905

 

similar to the more common albino b/n but with black eyes.... inaccurately sold as L144.... the true L144 is a different species found in paraguay... 

 

fish pictured in the link is of unknown origin and is prob captive bred/created :).....

 

so its called ancistrus species {4} or black eyed yellow bristlenose.... NOT L144  :P

 

 

 

 



#2 Fox

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 06:13 AM

FINALLY!

 

IMO they are just another BN & therefore should be sold as such.

Good work Johnno



#3 shep

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 11:01 AM

Peacocks are peacocks . Zebras are zebras .Discus are Discus.
No matter how many are available.
L numbers are all plecos. ?

all fish should be sold as just fish?
AZ You with your experience know better than that . ( do you not) ????????

#4 Shane-o88

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 11:53 AM

So it's just a yellow bristlenose!! I always thought as much

#5 YIN93

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 12:50 PM

Both short and long fins are easy to breed. But long fin frys are slow growers and have high death rate.

Edited by YIN93, 05 June 2014 - 09:01 PM.


#6 Fox

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 04:43 PM

Peacocks are peacocks . Zebras are zebras .Discus are Discus.
No matter how many are available.
L numbers are all plecos. ?

all fish should be sold as just fish?
AZ You with your experience know better than that . ( do you not) ????????

 

Well yes as you say, Peacocks are peacocks etc etc etc etc

 

But there is different strains/species here in Oz.

 

No fish shouldn't be sold as just fish.

Has anyone verified L144 as proper L144 in Oz? I highly doubt it.

Somebody has thought,"How can I make a quick buck, Oh yea these cool looking albino BN's with black/blue eyes look like L144's, Lets go with that." And BANG! price goes up and people tell people and it quickly becomes known that someone has L144's for sale.

 

It happened a couple of years ago with EY's....

Someone said there was F0's available. They were bought, breed and sold as such. Money was made and a lot of it.

Unfortunately for the seller of the fry they found out that they weren't F0 at all and they had been Jipped. So all those people that had bought the fry thinking they were F1's would've have been pretty pissed.

Nice fish Yea! but not F1's

 

Albino BN's with different colored eyes, Nice fish Yea, But not L144's.

 

 

AZ You with your experience know better than that . ( do you not) ????????

I started in the industry at the age of 17 (37 now) I don't and would never claim to have plenty of experience with keeping,breeding or knowledge of fish keeping.

Things ALWAYS change.

There is always something new happening.

Yes I've had plenty of years keeping, breeding, selling etc etc but that does not make me a professional in the hobby.

 

I know what I know and am ALWAYS happy to share stories with another friendly aquarist.

The people who carry on like they know all and everything about the hobby make me laugh.. No doubt there is some very smart and experienced aquarist's & hobbyists out there but they still don't know everything.

 

Anyways I'll stop yabbering on now as I have some fish to go and have a look at :)

Hope the new job is treating you well ;)



#7 shep

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 07:18 PM

Any Albino bristlenose will have NO pigmentation in their eyes
However a L144 OR a leucistic bristlenose will retain pigmentation (colour in the eyes)

AZ . I would never dispute your willingness to help and advise and that is from personal experience.

If L144s have not been verified in oz, then it has not been verified that they are not.
maybe an expert somewhere in oz will be able to do this.

until then I have some standard and longfin bristlenose for sale that look soooooo much like L144s that even the 'experts' in the catfish world can't be sure.

Edited by shep, 05 June 2014 - 07:28 PM.


#8 Fox

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 07:33 PM

Any Albino bristlenose will have NO pigmentation in their eyes
However a L144 OR a leucistic bristlenose will retain pigmentation (colour in the eyes)

until then I have some standard and longfin bristlenose for sale that look soooooo much like L144s that even the 'experts' in the catfish world can't be sure.

Thats very true ;)

 

Again very true.



#9 waxy

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 07:54 PM

Ok these things have been around a while now. Great fish, I like em anyway.
Has anyone owned or seen one of these fish at a monster size?
In my opinion the "L144" both long and short fin variety are a smaller fish than the commons and albinos. To me even the fry look smaller than the standard BN. I've had L144 fry squeeze thru holes in frysavers that I've never had issues with other BN.
Ok so who has the biggest L144?
I've seen albino shortfin BN @17cm and a common male around that size too.
While the biggest L144 I've seen is maybe 10cm or 11cm max.
Someone prove me wrong!
C'mon Johnno!

#10 Redevilz

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 09:16 PM

I'm with Az.

Pretty much the same thing, I see no reason why someone would pay a higher price for a fish that is 'apparently and supposedly' an L144 as supposed to a albino BN.

#11 malawiman85

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 09:18 PM

Here we go again...

#12 Redevilz

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 09:37 PM

lol, never a dull moment on PCS is there?

#13 Frontosaman

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 09:44 PM

So what your saying Johnno is that the 144's that you had fs on this forum and I brought ten of  are not actually 144's??



#14 Fox

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 10:22 PM

In the words of Homer Simpson!
"Uh-ohspaghetti-o's!

#15 Redevilz

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 10:24 PM

DOH!

#16 bigjohnnofish

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 02:15 AM

So what your saying Johnno is that the 144's that you had fs on this forum and I brought ten of  are not actually 144's??

 

well technically speaking yes... but if i sold them as ancistrus species {4} no-one would know what im selling... they will continue to be sold with the 144 tag on them... but we all know that its not the correct name...

 

ok i will verify that no-one has a genuine 144 in australia... as there has only ever been one genuine 144 known - read the below link and it'll solve all the questions you ask :)

 

http://www.planetcat...species_id=2487


If L144s have not been verified in oz, then it has not been verified that they are not.
maybe an expert somewhere in oz will be able to do this.

until then I have some standard and longfin bristlenose for sale that look soooooo much like L144s that even the 'experts' in the catfish world can't be sure.

 

so its sorted now... no-one has THE genuine L144.... no ifs or buts... the only one exported went to germany {so im told}



#17 MrLeifBeaver

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 02:53 PM

So does that mean L144's price'll drop?



#18 bigjohnnofish

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 12:17 AM

can they drop anymore ??? when they first showed up they were over 400 bucks each for 3-4cm fry..... so as far as price dropping goes - they are pretty much same prices as a lot of other bristlenose now anyway... some cases cheaper.... pair went for $70 at auction recently.... seen albino longfin pairs go for $120-$150 a pair.... same with calico pairs.... 

 

wont make any difference on price - we all knew what they were even with the L144 tag :)



#19 Hood

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Posted 17 November 2016 - 10:49 AM

I've been reading up on these guys the real rundown on exactly what the L144 is here:
http://www.planetcat...species_id=2487
 

L144 is a one off import - the one male fish that came from Paraguay was at the time bred together with females imported at the same time, and then crossed back to their own siblings to lock the genetic defect that causes the yellow colour. These fish died out in the late 1990s as far as anyone can tell. The fish that is now sold as L144 is a different form, most likely based on Ancistrus cf. cirrhosus. This form resembling L144 can be found under as Ancistrus sp(4).


So that leads us to Ancistrus sp(4)being the actual plecs being sold as L144
http://www.planetcat...?species_id=905

Similar to the more common albino Ancistrus but with black eyes. Generally inaccurately sold as Ancistrus sp. L144. The true L144 is a different species imported from Paraguay.


So it would seem the fish traded as L144 the world over is actually a leucistic variation of a form of bristlenose. Much like red zebra cichlids or tangerine peacocks etc.
I also note they have no spotting like albino's or commons etc.
This then lead me to a thought. My calico's don't have spotting like common's or albino's or long fins or silver tips etc. etc. Could this mean that the calicos we have actually have more in common with these false L144's than they do with the common or albino's?
Being that I have read that L144's will sometimes throw offspring with splotches (like tangerine peacocks throwing fry which have some dark splotches (OB?) fry)this would seem logical to me that calico's came from this leucistic mutation, much like we observe with other leucistic species of fish.
I have not been able to find concrete evidence for this observation yet, but just putting my thought process out there. :)

#20 bigjohnnofish

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Posted 18 November 2016 - 01:18 AM

i have a colony of common b/n that have bred commons for over 5 years - no new blood has ever been put into the tank... started with about 10 commons sourced from a few locations so it was assumed they werent directly related... had about 2-3 generations of commons come through and oust the previous dominant males... 

so at worst we have had 3 inbreeds... but most likely that didnt occur.... anyway out of nowhere one spawn threw a dozen albino b/n fry..... they were removed as i didnt want to get albino fry reoccurring more often.... not that long after this half a dozen marble b/n fry turned up.... again removed not to taint the common lines as much as possible... this was quite awhile ago now prob 2-3 years ago... never bred anymore albino/calico fry....

but the original question is calicos didnt come from albino or lemon b/n variants... calicos came directly from the common b/n... as did albinos.... as did lemon b/n (ancistrus species (4) ) or formerly known as L144 (falsely) 

 

albinism in fish was a 1 in 10,000 chance - approx but has now changed dramatically to environmental exposure to different chemicals

leucism in fish was a 1 in 100,000 chance - approx.....

 

once 2 fish with this colour morph are mated together then the colour continues.....

 

as do calicos..... but crossing albino , leucistic and calico together often brings out the return of common fry and or parent coloured fry... no hard and fast rule to the fry outcomes - very much seems like random outcomes in regards to fry colour type....

 

 






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