119 replies to this topic

[dazzabozza]

It's hard to believe with that process you can brake down all of the nitrate going through that system. there is always something that can go wrong and it's still connected to the tank. what ever happened to the good old water changes.

Slink I'm guessing u haven't read the past posts in detail. It's been said quite a few times that its purpose is not to prevent the need for water changes but prolong the time needed between them.

If you are going to buy extra equipment, it is my belief that your money would be better spent on a more efficient water changing system.

Would luv to see some semi/fully automated examples. I'm thinking about getting a rainwater storage tank and a water change system attached would be great.

Dazza

[slink]

Slink I'm guessing u haven't read the past posts in detail. It's been said quite a few times that its purpose is not to prevent the need for water changes but prolong the time needed between them.


Would luv to see some semi/fully automated examples. I'm thinking about getting a rainwater storage tank and a water change system attached would be great.

Dazza

Dazza I have read them and understand that it only prolongs water changes. I still say weekly water changes are the best for reducing because you are removing them. I see the nitrate reduction as still a part of the tank. somewhere there will be a floor in the product. This is only my veiw on it thats all.

[Iamsam]

i may have missed it somewhere plus i am not to fimilar with this product but what does the nitrate brake down into? does it go into nitrogen gas which is than released from the tank like in a marine system with live rock, the nitrates cant just "disapper" they have to go somewhere or change into a byproduct of some sort, although if i am way of track some just ignore me

[dazzabozza]

Tis ok Slink. I wasn't having a go it's just you said "break down all the nitrates".


Ere u go Sam. From further up in Tim's post.

The outlet: drops and gas are expelled here. Drops are easy to see and count.

Dazza

[Iamsam]

Tis ok Slink. I wasn't having a go it's just you said "break down all the nitrates".


Ere u go Sam. From further up in Tim's post.




Dazza

thanks, my eyes arnt working to well today

[Cawdor]

I'm actually enjoying this, I feel it not only shows people something new but also educates at the same time!

Ok to answer some of the comments made: I agree that waterchanges are necessary to reduce potentially harmful waste products, uncluding nitrate. As Brett pointed out, there are more. However nitrate seems to be the one that can do most harm if it goes unchecked, so that's why we concentrate on that one. Having a completely functioning ecosystem in a tank that won't require any outside influence is a great dream but extremely hard, if not impossible, to accomplish in a home tank.

Why did I choose this system over a more elaborate automatic waterchanging system? Because of the location of the tanks. I don't have a fish shed, the tanks are in my living area. So there is no way to run plumbing.
And with a rather hectic life these days, spending a good half a day on waterchanges and cleaning is not something I want to do every week, so this is where this system comes in.

Slink: this system breaks down the nitrate. Completely. The water that drops out at the end is 100% nitrate free and the nitrate is not stored anywhere in the unit. The bacteria within the unit use nitrate and break it down from 2 NO₃ into N2 + 3 O₂. They use the oxygen and the nitrate gas escapes into the air as it is expelled. That's it, completely broken down nitrate.

If I can get this to a point where I have to change the water once a month I'm happy. I have not seen any change in behaviour or look of the fish, so as far as I can tell there are no harmful side effects of spacing out the water changes.

[slink]

Slink: this system breaks down the nitrate. Completely. The water that drops out at the end is 100% nitrate free .

I still don't believe that it would be 100% nitrate free.

[Neakit]

it is. the filter allows for the perfect conditions for the denitrifying bacteria to thrive

[fishyyyyyy77]

wats odd is i used to have a 6'x18"x18" tank with 2 larger archers (6") 1 oscar (10-11") 1 saratoga (6") and a 4-6" red devil and after time the tank would go up to 2 months between water changes with no visible harm to the fish or discolouration bad odour etc. the only maintenance done was once a fortnight cleaning of the filter media and cleaning of the glass which usuallly resulted in mixing up the gravel (the oscar had a fetish about finding glass since a baby. and tests for nitrate nitrite ammonia and ph all had good results nitrate <20ppm. any ideas on how this was managed? ive been unable to duplicate it in my new tank

[dazzabozza]

Seems like quite a light/medium bio-load compared to some other tankbuster keepers.

What filtration were you using? Cleaning the filters fortnightly would've removed the majority of detritus and kept your nitrates low. I'd say most fish keepers tend to do water changes more often compared to cleaning their filters mainly coz its easier.


Dazza

[Mark93]

had one of these and boy dos the gas that it makes stink

[Cawdor]

had one of these and boy dos the gas that it makes stink

I have this sitting in our main living area and neither I nor my other half can smell anything nasty. Even if my nose if very close to it (when cleaning the tank) I can't smell anything.
I had once instance where it stopped dripping overnight and in the morning I saw some gas trapped in the outgoing hose, so when I opened the valve slightly to get it started again I had a whiff of that rotten egg smell. It dissipated very quickly though.

[FishGal]

wats odd is i used to have a 6'x18"x18" tank with 2 larger archers (6") 1 oscar (10-11") 1 saratoga (6") and a 4-6" red devil and after time the tank would go up to 2 months between water changes with no visible harm to the fish

In regards to no visible harm to the fish.....I've been told (please anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong!) that fish "get used" to the environments we keep them in, eg they were used to only getting water changes every 2 months....however were you to introduce another fish into that environment chances are it wouldn't cope with it very well....same as if you were to suddenly change from doing water changes every 2 months, to doing 50% water changes every week, the fish might not handle it very well?

Is there any reason why you didn't do water changes for 2 months? I can't imagine it would have been very nice for them to be swimming around in their own "muck" lol I've seen some of the "logs" O's can produce....and thats only after a week!

[Neakit]

if the parameters are fine, why waste water??

[Krystal]

I am now the proud owner of 2 Nitratereductors...........I still water change all tanks once a week/every second week (depending on the aquarium) but i think they are a great addition. They keep my nitrates as low as possible in between my regular cleans.

had one of these and boy dos the gas that it makes stink

Hi Mark, the reason for your nitrate reductor smelling is because of the redox potential.

"With a redox potential control, the function of the Nitratereductor can be optimised and the reliability can be
increased.
The optimal working point of the Nitratereductor can be determined by a measurement of the redox potential.
Denitrification and redox potential
The redox potential is a parameter which can be measured electronically. The value is a measurement for the
equilibrium between reducing and oxidising reactions in the water.

The redox potential in the aquarium itself is kept at plus 200 - 400 mV (Millivolt). This high redox potential
indicates, that oxidation reactions dominate over reduction reactions. Oxidation reactions are biochemical
reactions, where a substance is oxidised, e.g. by oxigen.

A negative redox potential indicates the absence of oxigen and is lethal for most aquarium inhabitants.
The biochemical conditions in the Nitratereductor differ completely from those in the aquarium: Nitrate has to
be reduced to nitrogen gas. This is only possible if there is no oxigen dissolved in the water.
The redox potential is low or even negative. The ideal range is between -50 and -250 mV.
If it exceeds -50 mV, the denitrification reaction may stop at the nitrite stage!

If it falls below -300 mV, all the nitrate is reduced. The bacteria then start to use sulphate. This is a very
undesired process because the end product of this reaction is Hydrogensulfide. Hydrogensulfide (H2S) is toxic
and smells very strange like fouling eggs.

If a little bit of Hydrogensulfide is entering the aquarium, this is not critical. It is immidiately oxidized to
sulphate. The closed version of the Nitratereductor causes no problems with bad smell.

Control of the Nitratereductor.
The Nitratereductor can be controlled by the rate of feeding or the flow rate of water:
If the redox potential exceeds -50 mV or even gets positive, the dosage of food (Denimar tablets) can be
increased or the flow rate decreased.

If the redox potential sinks below -300 mV, the feeding can be reduced or the flow rate increased.
If you work with the Denimar tabs, you should keep the flow rate constant and vary the food supply. If you
work with Deniballs, you should vary the flow rate."

If all else fails...........Read The Manual (as boring as they are, this one is quite a good read) , this explains why yours was smelling

Instructions here --------------> http://www.swelluk.c...nstructions.pdf

[dazzabozza]

A nice detailed response there Krystal

Just wondering... how do u go about measuring the mW reading?

Dazza

[FishGal]

if the parameters are fine, why waste water??

I actually find it hard to believe that the water parameters would have been fine in a tank that size with that many and such sized fish after 2 months without a water change...unless there was no feeding involved.

[Neakit]

some people don't change their water in saltwater tanks cause their parameters are fine, and i tell you what they are some of the most stunning tanks.

[Krystal]

Hey Darryl,

You can buy a special electronic meter (havent looked into the cost yet, but would love to get one) and there is a small cap on top of the nitrate reductor that you unscrew and insert the probe into, thus giving you a reading.

Obviously not everyone will have this equipment available to them, but as the manual states, if the outlet starts smelling then feed the unit more with the denimar food (approx. 20 are supplied with the unit) or if you are using the deniballs, simply increase the flow rate goint through the unit.

[Mr_docfish]

The electronic meter would be a Redox meter with a special probe that is designed to handle pressure. You can get the probe separately by Aquamedic (if you already have a redox meter) and this will attach to the Aquamedic nitratereductor.