117 replies to this topic

[temptazn]

umm
i think we're getting off topic here
we're suppose to be talking abt mono's 'freak' fish haha no offence to lil blackie...
some more photos would be nice mono in its later stages of growth... its kinda small atm and looks like those controversial UFO photos haha
vic

[benckie]

true makes sense but not some thing i would do, but how many people do that honestly. if you where to start the world over would you pick 10 people from the same family or would you pick 10 people from difrrent parts of the word ? i would pick 10 of the healthest best quality i could with as many difrent blood lines as i could same as for my fish,

or you could just breed brothers and sisters mums and dads sell them let next person do the same and cull all the deformed ones and keep the few good ones and be happy with that but i know i wouldnt and i would like my kids to be able to keep the same fish we do but will the lines hold up ? or will humans kill them off like every thing else ?

[tangycichlids]

you on to it ! we all should do that im amazed what people actualy use as breeding stock, i will slap the next person who says its ok to breed brothers and sister and buy groups of fry of one person and grow them up then breed them and then sell the fry for three bucks a pop wtf, then the next bloke buys that group and grows them up and sells their fry and so on

I am only taking the piss here. But you could slap nearly every person that has kept electric yellows. Well old school ones anyway

In the late seventies and early eighties there were three exporters operating in Malawi: Stuart Grant, Eric Fleet and Norman Edwards. Edwards was able to get two live specimens, a male and a female, out of the country in 1980. They were included in a shipment going to Swedish importer, Stig Jansson, in Stockholm. It was Pierre Brichard who first recognized the commercial potential of these fish. Jansson relinquished the pair to him and Brichard was able to produce a spawn. Once he had accumulated over 1000 offspring (1986) he began selling the yellows under the name Labidochromis “tanganicae”.
It wasn’t until 1986 that Stuart Grant first saw the yellows. Due to logistics he decided that it was unviable to collect the fish for export. Years later (around 1990) Grant decided to breed the fish at his fish station at Kambiri point. Unfortunately most were killed when an earthquake all but destroyed the ponds in which they were housed. He decided not to continue the breeding program and sent the remaining few specimens to colleague Gary Kratochval in the USA. Between 1980 and 1990 there were no exports of wild caught specimens and the majority of pond and tank raised yellows in the hobby had all derived from the single pair that Brichard bred. This colour variant while more rare in the lake, enjoys a distribution in the hobby that would easily outnumber the wild population by probably several hundred-fold.

From a very well written article by Andrea.
http://www.sydneycic...nt/?page_id=132

Frenchy

[benckie]

thats my piont !

[monobono]

umm
i think we're getting off topic here
we're suppose to be talking abt mono's 'freak' fish haha no offence to lil blackie...
some more photos would be nice mono in its later stages of growth... its kinda small atm and looks like those controversial UFO photos haha
vic

good point, dw, as it gets older, if still swimming there will be more pics.




Everyone please understand the following:

I am not intending to breed this "mutant" fish. In my care it will be no more then a display fish.

FYI, my Electric Yellow colony consists of Possibly related females, however the male is not related to any of his females. But this doesn't matter, as long as the females don't breed with each other, then all fry will have un-related parents. All the past 60 or so fry have been of perfect quality.

I agree that this "mutant" fish could be a result of past genes in either one of the parents - which I cannot be blamed for.

I also agree that a high use of linebreeding is a negative factor, which is why I don't bother doing it.



Lets just admire the freak fish that come by over the years, and not debate its rights and wrongs.

P.S. Display fish only

[RedCod]

Are you even sure it's an EY? Just the other day, I found an afra fry in the breeder net of a holding saulosi. Ended up with 30 saulosi fry and a 'black' fry which on closer inspection turned out to be an afra fry. Don't ask me how, I have no idea...

[tangycichlids]

I also agree that a high use of linebreeding is a negative factor, which is why I don't bother doing it.

I don't know why people beat themselves up over comments like this. We all do it to one form or another whether we mean to or not. Some species in the country only came in once, so would all descend back to original few.

Frenchy

[Fish Antics]

It is nice to see this debate happening again without getting nasty, which has happened in the past due to the fact that people often feel very passionate about their view on both sides.

In my opinion if you grow it up and keep it for yourself I dont see a problem. I would be also interested to see what it grows up to look like. As mentioned before, it may turn out to be another fish from something else in the tank??? or a throw back to another species which shows hybrid genes are present, or indeed a genetic mutation.

Line breeding is an aceptable practice in my opinion and I would say the majority of hobbiests. The PCS itself bans hybrids but not linebred. This is why Angels and Discuss are so varied.

To maintain a pure species the most important aspect is genetics. This is why often brothers and sisters are bought to grow up and breed. If the fish is of quality and strong genetic line then there is no issue with this practice. The problem comes in when there is poor genes which results in problems. It is nature how new populations are formed. a couple of fish reach a new area and breed between each other until their numbers grow.
It is far better to breed brother and sister of a high quality gene line rather than introduce a poor quality new line, or even worse a line from a different species or locality. By all means introduction of new bloodline of the exact same fish is the best option. But you must be sure it is 100% the same species and locality.

The idea of keeping a lot of these fish is to maintain their natural form and locality. This is best served by knowing the full history of your stock.
F1 fish are obviously the best option to run these lines of fish. Would you breed your F1 frontosa fry with a fish you bought from the kid down the road advertised in the quokka??? i dont think so. You would breed with another F1 source or failing that with each other to maintain the line.
This is why it is always best to buy good quality fish from a source you trust. This may cost you a b it more, but in the long term it will be worth it.

It is often very difficult to tell these fish apart when young and especially difficult with the females of certain species such as peacocks.


People keep fish for many different reasons, and each has a right to do so and a right to their opinions. I would just say that for the sake of the fish themselfs and the hobby in general that every care should be taken to keep hybrids out of the breeding lines and to maintain the highest quality in the stock you are breeding. Only keep and sell the top quality fish and cull any that fall below the standard you set.

I would also suggest that you know the history of your stock, where it came from, where their parents came from etc.. This way you can track back bloodlines as far back as possibile.

Keep the discussion up and keep it friendly

Tony

[nic]

hi

i dont see any pics at all

thanks nic

[cichlid hunter]

On the first page first post has photos!

[Wacker]

Good luck with lil blackie mate.

Post some more pics when it gets bigger!

Wacker

[temptazn]

haha i think the forum has already given ur fish a name mono
lil blackie sounds right
but freak fish sounds... well... just as appropriate i guess haha
vic

[devilman]

Just to throw a little extra into this debate - how about when two white people have a black baby as sometimes, albeit rarely, happens?

thats the milk man

[tangycichlids]

thats my piont !

What about the electric yellows?

All the really good top looking yellow colonies I have seen, are the result of selectively breeding the best looking yellows they could find. Well from multi generations ago, sometimes years of being picky.
What they have done is kept the best young, re breed back through the colony, or just raise them up to form another colony, so on.....

Frenchy

[Fox]

Just to throw a little extra into this debate - how about when two white people have a black baby as sometimes, albeit rarely, happens?

thats the milk man

LMAO

I have heard of this before, White people having black babies and
vice-versa.
Cant wait to see the body shape as it ages..

[monobono]

It should be rather interesting Az

[benckie]

hows the little thing going ?

[cichlid hunter]

We should make little blacky the PCS forum Mascot haha

[madasa]

We should make little blacky the PCS forum Mascot haha

That sir is a great idea!

[benckie]

lols a bet a few people would spit it over that