114 replies to this topic

[golden_dase]

Can't we as a hobby group argue this in court?? Domestic dogs & cats have killed countless "native wildlife" and yet people are allowed to keep, breed, import etc...??
So, why are fish any different?

[Donna]

What would seem like logic is never going to work when cats are a billion dollar industry! Do you really think that it is about conservation or moral issues?
I read once that a ridiculous multiple, something like ten times more money is spent on cat food than on nutritious food for children. Commerce Kev, you can understand that surely?

Cat clothes
Cat food
Cat carriers
Designer Cat Carriers
Designer Cats
Cat Sterilisation
Cat Groomers
Cat Breeders
Cat shows
Cat Photography (pets)
Income for vets

the list goes on and on.....you can't beat the buck...

[golden_dase]

Yes Donna, I understand commerce extremely well.. but commerce and "rules & laws" by uneducated idiots are 2 different things.

[Donna]

Yes Donna, I understand commerce extremely well.. but commerce and "rules & laws" by uneducated idiots are 2 different things.

They are not uneducated idiots. They, like everyone else, need to be seen to be doing something. You may not agree with what they are doing, but they are doing something, which the public will recognise, but never analyse.

They will never be able to take on the multi nationals who have a huge stake pet industries, such as cats and dogs for that matter. There are responsible cat owners, just as there are responsible dog owners, however, clearly we have a feral cat and dog problem. We have responsible fish owners too....but that does not exclude a possible feral fish problem.

Whether or not the current action is going to solve that problem, only time will tell. If I were a member of the public, I would think, good on them, they are protecting our native fish.

Now as the daughter of a trout fisherman...I have heard and watched a lot of these issues unfold I may not share the public's views..

[Den]

Terry I have an idea.

If you have a bunch of fish left give them out to PCS members and then all the owners call Today Tonight or one of those other programes and let the public know that the Governement is making us kill our pets, Im sure it will make a good news story for them.

A good public a outcry will turn over theses kinds of poorly made Government decisions.

I will be happy to make the call.

Cheers
Den

[Tarpon]

I dont blame you Terry.

I couldn't kill 2 hybrids I had, so just left them to live out their lives in a spare tank.

Very admirable of you but a lot of fishkeepers have no problems feeding live fish that they have bred to other fish. Like feeding juvenile angelfish to juvenile birchirs

[werdna]

Thats exactly what I was thinking Den.

Cant hurt to try

Very admirable of you but a lot of fishkeepers have no problems feeding live fish that they have bred to other fish. Like feeding juvenile angelfish to juvenile birchirs

There is a difference between buying something as a food, or keeping a pet and killing it.
If you have a pet snake and you feed it frozen mice you dont expect people who keep mice as pets to let you feed theirs to your snake.

[Tarpon]

Thats exactly what I was thinking Den.

Cant hurt to try


There is a difference between buying something as a food, or keeping a pet and killing it.
If you have a pet snake and you feed it frozen mice you dont expect people who keep mice as pets to let you feed theirs to your snake.

Agreed but fishkeepers even on the PCS breed fish that get fed to other fish. It seems that if there is less monetary value then they aren't real pets

Terry I have an idea.

If you have a bunch of fish left give them out to PCS members and then all the owners call today tonight or one of those other programes and let the public know that the Governement is making us kill our pets, Im sure it will make a good news story for them.

A good public a outcry will turn over theses kinds of poorly made Government decisions.

I will be happy to make the call.

Cheers
Den

But would giving away noxious fish in itself be a crime??

[Den]

But would giving away noxious fish in itself be a crime??

Not until July 23rd

We should be rallying around this and put a stop to it, what fish species is next on the list? one of yours?

I agree with everything Terry has said, these beurocrats just want to make it look like they've done something over the past 4 years, they are a joke.

I asked an ichthyologist with 45years of experience how many Australian native fish species are under threat or extinct because of a released aquarium fish, he was unable to give a single example.

Cheers
Den

[Tarpon]

We should be rallying around this and put a stop to it, what fish species is next on the list? one of yours?

Doesn't matter if anything I have including the stingrays are noxious I would be glad to hand them in. Like I say the law is the law.
When the fishing bans were in place recently I accidentally caught a snapper which was bleeding so badly it was going to die. But the rules are that you couldn't keep them so I had to toss it back. Painful though as it was a waste

[Den]

The law is made by people and it can be overturned and changed by people.

Lol Tarpon you sound like someone whos come from a military background, brainwashed to not question authority, but I know the real reasons behind your current support of this law, you are loving it arent you!

Cheers
Den

[Tarpon]

The law is made by people and it can be overturned and changed by people.

Lol Tarpon you sound like someone whos come from a military background, brainwashed to not question authority, but I know the real reasons behind your current support of this law, you are loving it arent you!

Cheers
Den

You know me too well and I have only met you in person once. Yes I have a military background and yes I support this law. Fish smuggling is never a good idea, certainly not for the welfare of the fish.
And Den I love your arguments so I tend to pick the opposite point of view to your whenever I can

[Den]

LOL Tarpon, the military background was an accidental guess, even so, I doubt you are brainwashed, so I question your true motivation behind supporting this law.

Im sure you must have some empathy towards someone being forced to kill their pets just because some beurocrat wants to make it look like they've done some work.

Maybe when the next species is called up and its something swimming in your tank you may have different feelings.

Cheers
Den

[Hydonia]

Tarpon and Den, take it outside, this issue isn't about you.

Terry, I love Den's suggestion and would be happy to call today tonight in an outrage. Until the 23rd of July these fish are yours to do what you will with them.

[keenas]

Funny thing is that I am sure none of the fisheries officers could positively ID these fish anyway... They would be calling on people like Terry and Oli to help ID them or other "experts " for that matter.

[Terry]

Thanks to everybody for your support, the Posts Pms and phone calls are very encouraging. A quick email to Tony.Burke.MP@aph.gov.au
telling him how you feel will go a long way towards saving our pets.

I would love to give the fish to PCS members as Den suggests but I feel that this would be the wrong thing to do for our hobby. We should be seen to be doing the right thing at all times.This thread is not just about Oreochromis it is about all of our pets that are on the grey list,if we give up Oreochromis we might as well say goodbye to most of the fish we love.

On Friday I contacted WA Fisheries and told them the numbers of fish that I have and assured them that I would not sell any, I also told them that I would try to get some of the fish back. My reason for this was; The fish are now on the Noxious list so their whereabouts should be kept under control, this will help in the total eradication of the species in this country. The way that they were included on the list is wrong but they are on there so we have to do the right thing.Today I informed WA Fisheries and several other Government departments that I would not be killing any more pets, I also gave WA Fisheries a copy of the above post.

The statement above "It seems that if there is less monetary value then they aren't real pets" is very sad. We all keep fish for different reasons and we all place different values on them. Ofmig and WA Fisheries chose the Oreochromis as the subject of this post not me, my reaction would have been the same had they chosen convicts.The fish in question are valuable and I will be seeking compensation and in the unlikely event that I am successful it will be a long time before another one of our pets is placed on the noxious list.

Cheers Terry

[Ivan Sng]

Well I think Den's idea is pretty good, although it may not be necessary to give fishes on the noxious list to other PCS members. All that is possibly needed is sufficient people to speak up.

IMO, it is pointless contacting the Fisheries or any government body for that matter. All they are going to do is sweep it under the carpet and move on... If you want things changed, public media like Today Tonight or similar is the way to go. Take the Mining Tax for example. We changed a PM and the tax is being negotiated. All because of public media and pressure.

As someone posted above, these people are doing their jobs. If they compromised by mere emails from some group of people, would it look like they are doing their jobs well? NO. You need external pressure.

[Tarpon]

The statement above "It seems that if there is less monetary value then they aren't real pets" is very sad. We all keep fish for different reasons and we all place different values on them.

My statement was edited and thus not in context. I had also stated that you have had posts showing photos of your baby birchirs eating baby angel fish which i presume you also bred. Just seems hypocritical that the angelfish used as feeders are not good enough to be your pets
This reply will be edited too I'm sure. Again hypocrisy that you are all lamenting a heavy handed govt dept but yet this forum is itself so heavily censored

[Cawdor]

but yet this forum is itself so heavily censored

That's a completely wrong and inflammatory statement coming from someone who has no idea what's going on behind the scenes of this forum.
Back on topic, I hope you hear back from the West Australian Terry and good luck with the interview.

[dazzabozza]

Very admirable of you but a lot of fishkeepers have no problems feeding live fish that they have bred to other fish. Like feeding juvenile angelfish to juvenile birchirs

Is this the reply you're on about Rez? Not edited out, just a different reply of yours.