72 replies to this topic

[Melee]

Type of fish: Peacock Cichlid, clownloach, Gold spot pleco, bristlenose
Symptoms: Heavily Gasping ~ majority eating, swimming around (schooling, others sitting alone, struggling to stay alive)
Other tank mates: Originally colony of 18, now 13.
Tank size / capacity: 450L. 5.8 Ft
Type of Food fed: Fluval Flakes. (vegetarian)
Feeding frequency/amount: Originally twice a day, reduced to once as they seem less reluctant to feed.
Substrate: Coral sand
Type of filtration: 2200L/ph external cannnister
Frequency of filter cleans: Once a month
Frequency and % volume of water changes: Originally once a week, now once a day as the situation has worsened
Last water change: Today
PH: 8.0/8.2
EDIT: KH: Limestone aquascaping, with a large Vallis plant
GH: Unsure
Nitrite:0
Nitrate:0
Ammonia:0
Phosphate: Unsure
Water temp: 26C
Medications used recently to date: Prime, Stress Zyme +
Any recent changes..new fish/filters/power outages etc etc:

 

I had the fish for ~ a month, perfectly healthy preforming weekly water changes with no problem.

Overnight they started to gasp heavily, i noticed that the clown loach had symptoms of ich, and other cichlids had flecks of white scales/damaged scales. I turned on the UV filter for 12 hours in hopes of fixing the problem, The white spots on the clown loach seemed to of healed. 

After which the cichlids were still gasping and looking worse. 

I did a complete tank clean, and did a 40% water change, removing all waste and some aqua plants to hopefully keep them alive.

 

The tank has 3 air stones, a powerhead and an additional sump filter attached to a UV filter, and two heaters.

 

I have experienced a similar situation 4 months ago when all my colony died overnight without any symptoms. So i did a full quarantine of my tank, drying out all substrate rocks, filter and washing all rocks in boiling water to ensure there was no contamination. afterwhich i stocked the tank with mollys, tetras, bristles to get the bio filter active.

I have had no problems over the past 4 weeks and have been doing everything to keep them alive.

 

The fish show signs of tiny grey/white marks,but doesn't look like white spot as i've encountered that before.

The fish are breathing extremely heavily and gills moving rapidly.

This has been ongoing for the last 6 days, and ~ 1 fish dies everyday (all different sizes)

There has been no water contamination or anything added to the tank since day 1 (besides prime and stress zyme on water changes)

I have no treated the tank for Ich (with white spot remedy), and Worms with the proper dosage of levimisole.

EDIT: I do notice when the LED Tank light is on, they start gasping more

EDIT: Upon inspection of one of the dead fish, the gills look completely swollen over, all red. ~ i have now starting treating with levimisole soaked food, again.

EDIT: Also notice that they pick up sand in their mouth and spit it out very often.

 

 

This is my last cry for help, as over the last 2 years i have been unsuccessful and going to sell off everything if i can't keep these fish alive,

As an aquarium hobbyist to another, please help.

Edited by Melee, 14 September 2015 - 09:56 PM.

[tropheus]

There might be something wrong with your test kit. You shouldn't have a reading of 0 in nitrates...
If you haven't done so already, take a water sample to your local fish shop and get them to test it.
You also didn't mention how you clean your filter media, because if u are cleaning it in tap water, therein lies the problem


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[Melee]

I use previous tank water when cleaning filter media.

I have two testing kits, API master kit, and sera nitrate kit.

With the amount of water changes recently i see how its at 0, before hand when they got really sick i had UV filter on possibly that reduced the nitrates. 

(I also have two other tanks i use the same test kit on which gives i assume accurate readings of 10-20 nitrates.)

Thanks for your reply any other suggestions would be extremely happy.

[Melee]

The only disease i don't know much information is gill disease, and possible treatments, if anyone can enlighten me it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

[Melee]

Is it possible that there could be something permanently wrong with this tank? 

[Buccal]

Make sure there is no uneaten food lying around.
Stop water changing all together for two weeks and maintain 27.c.
STOP feeding for a ENTIRE week. (no food at all).
Then report back here.

[Melee]

There is no food i can see, i cleaned the tank two days ago, however its hard to see as the flakes turn white on coral sand.

I will do this, as i am sure you have more experience than me, may i ask why these methods?

And do i continue treatment with levimisole just via putting correct dosage into water?

And do i keep UV filter and overhead light off for this time?

Should i increase airflow or reduce it?

And, Thank you ^^

Edited by Melee, 14 September 2015 - 06:05 PM.

[tropheus]

As I said before, nitrates shouldn't test as 0 regardless of how many water changes u do.
Fish dying in your tank will also create spikes in ammonia etc unless they've been removed immediately.
API test kits are renowned for having false readings.
Get your water tested by your LFS first.
Once you can rule out that there is nothing wrong with your water, then start looking at possible diseases.
However, you can bump up your water temperature to 30 degrees just in case. Things like white spot/itch can't survive at that temperature. And make sure you have your uv running constantly to destroy any pathogens that may be present.


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[Buccal]

Fish will go pale and appear sick getting treated with levasimole,,, as it's a form of poison that kills worms but mildly effects fish.
Worms are very rare to have, and most of people treating for worms in fact never have worms.
It will also reduce appetite big time so food should be reduced.
Fish will become skittish and some will rest on bottom.
Once treatment is over,,, then days after they come good again.

I think you may have been over feeding as you've been feeding two times a day,,, if feeding two times a day, then you must feed extremely lightly.
After issues arrised I think you may have gone overboard with trying to fix a problem that's minor (over feeding).
And trying to address issues that are not there.
Once fish are stressed and sick (also levasimole stresses and weakens), water changes and temp drops create instability, which further compromises your fish.
You only water change to reduce ammonia in dire situations or regime nitrate reduction.

If you stop feeding for a week and stabilize their conditions,,, and keep a eye on,, it's a good way to a trouble shoot to begin with.

Actually, just adding,,,,, you may need to do a few changes to begin with to remove most of the levasimole.

[Buccal]

Looked back on your edit,,, no need to water change out levisamole if treating via laced foods.

[Melee]

Ok thanks a lot for your help, i will have a look around tomorrow for some excess foods i can remove, does overfeeding cause fish to gasp for air? 

[Melee]

Keep in mind the fish are gasping 24/7 and look extremely stressed. They don't sit at the top and generally sit near the bottom or mid water.

 

If they don't show any signs of recovery in the next two days, would it be worth taking them out to a pre-dechlorinated  environment (separate tank?) and putting temperature to high levels and UV filter as tropheus suggested?

Just still stressed about them, and don't want them to die.... I'm just not sold on over feeding, as the tank has been in good condition for a decent period of time.

Edited by Melee, 14 September 2015 - 09:06 PM.

[Chopstick_mike]

I'm relatively new to the hobby but I'm with buccal I think you are over thinking everything. Do as he says as he is probably one of the best people who know there sh*t when it comes to fish and water parameters etc. I know treatment is suppose to be a last resort as it can stress them out and cause more problems especially if you misdiagnosed in the first place. But keep us posted mate. Also my fish always pick sand up and spit it out that's normal

Edited by Chopstick_mike, 14 September 2015 - 09:25 PM.

[Melee]

Ok thanks for the reassurance, i'll just shit back and cross my fingers :'(

[fuggers]

hmmmm.... how do you clean your filter and do you use treated water? if the filters crashed a big ammonia spike will cause them to itch and gasp.

[Melee]

Just in a Styrofoam box, filled with tank water, the filter hasn't crashed its always running. i doubt the problem is ammonia, still think its more to do with something with the tank itself, like the silicon or something.

[fuggers]

Just in a Styrofoam box, filled with tank water, the filter hasn't crashed its always running. i doubt the problem is ammonia, still think its more to do with something with the tank itself, like the silicon or something.

the filter can be constantly running and still crash, its when something causes the bacteria to die off inside the filter and then the water parameters go screwy.

 

if your adamant that the water is good it could also be external, have u used insect spray or chemicles in the house?

Edited by fuggers, 15 September 2015 - 12:53 AM.

[Melee]

the filter can be constantly running and still crash, its when something causes the bacteria to die off inside the filter and then the water parameters go screwy.

 

if your adamant that the water is good it could also be external, have u used insect spray or chemicles in the house?

 

i would like to hope the filter is established, and the bacteria to be stable, it's not super old filter as i did quarantine it 2 months ago before i re-set-up this tank. So it has only been running for ~ a month maybe less, and cleaned it twice stated above as ^

 

As for sprays or chemicals i don't think anything could of effected it, i used some varnish on some wood near not to long ago, but dried properly and have had no problems when that smell was around.

 

Thanks a lot for your input

Fish will go pale and appear sick getting treated with levasimole,,, as it's a form of poison that kills worms but mildly effects fish.
Worms are very rare to have, and most of people treating for worms in fact never have worms.
It will also reduce appetite big time so food should be reduced.
Fish will become skittish and some will rest on bottom.
Once treatment is over,,, then days after they come good again.

I think you may have been over feeding as you've been feeding two times a day,,, if feeding two times a day, then you must feed extremely lightly.
After issues arrised I think you may have gone overboard with trying to fix a problem that's minor (over feeding).
And trying to address issues that are not there.
Once fish are stressed and sick (also levasimole stresses and weakens), water changes and temp drops create instability, which further compromises your fish.
You only water change to reduce ammonia in dire situations or regime nitrate reduction.

If you stop feeding for a week and stabilize their conditions,,, and keep a eye on,, it's a good way to a trouble shoot to begin with.

Actually, just adding,,,,, you may need to do a few changes to begin with to remove most of the levasimole.

 

All well and good, i will follow this advice.

I understand your theory but not feeding the fish for such a lengthy time, doesn't that reduce their immune system and ultimately make them weaker? 

would if be worth in 3 days to give them a tiny feed.

Edited by Melee, 15 September 2015 - 01:48 AM.

[Buccal]

The fish can go for 3 weeks or more with out food.
I'm a very big breeder,,, I only feed my fish once a day and only 4-5 days a week and they all breed.

The symptoms of your fish explained and going by text explanations without looking at tank in person, appears that ammonia has been the issue which is 80% of the time the problem in most peoples cases.
It must be understood that such circumstances may trigger off secondary disease issues which are other diseases that are caused by the intial issue.
Once fish have been exposed to ammonia at high enough levels for long enough, they will be PERMANENTLY effected and likely destined for death as ammonia ammonia burns gills, eyes and fin edges as well as compromising the protective slime coat which guards the fish against some diseases.

Your filter can be running fine and fish still effected by ammonia due to excessive feeding (again a common problem amongst aquarists).
Feeding sera-flora allows you to feed a little more and make mistakes as its a cleaner food and passes through fish nicely and doesn't cause blockages in fish which also is a cause of disease due to over feeding.
Everything in the aquarium is always inter-related and is never as black and white as many people seem to think.

If you start doing things to your fish to cure them that has nothing to do with the actual issue then you'll likely push them over the edge and kill them anyway.

So lights of, no water changes (this will reduce stress), and no feeding (will allow water to shift into optimum condition and allow fish to detox),,,,,, There is no stress in not feeding for intervals.
Remember in nature females mouth brood for 17-18 days with no food intake.
Make sure water surface is breaking to allow oxygen transfer for the rest of your fish keeping life.

Once gills (fishes breathing apparatus) are to far effected the fish are destined to die.

I'd suggest, if/when you get back on track choose your busiest day of the week and don't feed fish these days.
And only feed once a day and feed the amount you were feeding in one feeding session, don't feed more because your feeding once a day.
If you go on holidays or fish go without food for two weeks or more, that's fine, and don't ever try to ram more food to play catch up as I've seen some do.

Fish in the wild don't gauge themselves like they do in the tank,,, is much more natural in the wild that they eat a little here and little bit there,,,,,,, also not being in a closed system that can pollute (ammonia spike), at the blink of of a eye.

"feeding fish is a art in its self".

[Melee]

Thanks for your time and help, greatly appreciate it. 

Sadly i don't think they are going to survive as today i have had four deaths. If any survive by morning i would be more than surprised, i guess it's just time to call it quits until the future.

Wish you the best in your breeding

and will quote you if the fish miraculously survive.