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brown peppermints ?


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#21 oo Spooky oo

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Posted 28 June 2004 - 01:55 AM

This post is up on behalf of myself and Geoff in reply to all that think they know what they are talking about when clearly this is not the case.. firstly as AI goes they have never had these fish, they have only ever had orange/red spot L110 bristle nose.. once again this fish in question is not a L110.
for those that have foreseen this fish through their crystal ball obviously their balls are clouded so here is a pic of the fish in question...Were the HELL are the orange/red spots???????

on the L110 the patterning is totally different and is similar to a bristle nose, and actually do have orange colour hence the name.... as you can all see on the picture there is no red/orange spots at all at best the colour is off white. again the size diff is phenomenal between the two were the L110 reaches a max size of 12cm the fish in question can get to 16cm and bigger...now before any of you even begin to start with that Xs bullshit these guys are pure as I've personally seen 1000s of fry and every single one is identical.. these guys have come into the country a few times and all are the same as is their offspring.. This is the last reply as i don't really give a rats ass anymore think what you will ohh mighty yoda's...

cheers
Daniel.....

soulfly_maximus(AT)hotmail.com
coburg Melbourne

....I once had a handle on life and then it broke....

Edited by: oo spooky oo  at: 6/27/04 5:58 pm


#22 pete VCS

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Posted 28 June 2004 - 04:38 AM

Hello everyone.
Gone quiet here all of a sudden has'nt it!

Gee, seems like it's time to hand out the crutches to all of those who just shot themselves in the foot!

Geoff and Spooky at no time said the fish in question were L110's or Orange spotted BN (whatever you like), You people just decided that that must be them and let fly.

Geoff and Spooky are known to be very knowledgeable Aquarists and are well respected among many of us Victorian fish keepers.
I am disappointed (to say the least!) that they were attacked at all, let alone that it was only because of your surmising!
Or is it that David (boots'n' all) Sutton has a problem with Geoff's fish keeping successes? :chomp

The fish in question is obviously not what you were guessing at and is not a X-breed either, as they breed true, as mentioned by Geoff & Spooky earlier.

Now that you have a pic, does anyone have a common name for these fish?


No?

Brown Peppermints perhaps?
Why not? That's what Geoff bought them as!

I believe you have all treated Geoff and Spooky (who are very good friends of mine incedentally) most unfairly and also believe you owe them both an apology!

Something similar to this happened to another friend of mine about a year ago on the Sydney forum, everyone jumped on him due to incorrect information, many red faces later however..........

At least youre using some of my emoticons!
:mb :nsg :chomp :bd :good

Pete.




#23 Kimbo

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Posted 28 June 2004 - 04:51 AM

ive got 3 exactly like those sold to me as orange spotted bristlenose L110 see how they got the orange spots on their fins? i dunno if thats right but thats what ive bought them as



#24 NewChemistry

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Posted 28 June 2004 - 05:50 AM

I think the main problem with Ancistrus sp. (L110) is that everyone bases what they think they look like on the blurred pic on Planetcatfish (or the mislabelled pic in the first aqualog). If they don't look EXACTLY like the Planetcatfish photo they must be something different:lol
But, as anyone who has every kept common bns (or any of the other Ancistrus sp. available in Aus), they don't show the same colour all the time. Ever seen your peppermints at night? Mine were grey with no dots last night. Tonight, they are black with white dots.
Personally I have seen 15cm L110, so I imagine it is possible they can hit 16cm, they do grow pretty fast. To me the above pic looks like most other "orange-spotted bns" I have seen.
Pete,
how is breeding true proof of non-hybridisation? I thought flowerhorns could breed true?
Quote:
The fish in question is obviously not what you were guessing at and is not a X-breed either, as they breed true, as mentioned by Geoff & Spooky earlier.

Neither of them mentioned the fish breeding true as far as I can see.
Quote:
Geoff and Spooky at no time said the fish in question were L110's or Orange spotted BN (whatever you like), You people just decided that that must be them and let fly.

(From Geoff's original FS thread):
Quote:
adualt brown peppermints (a.leucosticta) @ $300 a pair

Geoff did refer to them as a. leucosticta...and as we can see from this thread, a. leucostica in Australia = Orange-spotted bns and L110.
I think this thread has also shown that Orange-spot x common are not unheard of. Unless you saw the parents, or the parent's parents (and so on), you can't say with 100% certainty that they aren't a cross.
Due to the offensive wording of Spooky's posts, I don't think apologies would be given...even if they were in order.

And I still think its damn funny people saying they work in the "fish industry":rollin is that a trout farm or a seafood shop?

Edited by: NewChemistry at: 6/27/04 9:52 pm


#25 Guest_Alan Caboolture_*

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Posted 28 June 2004 - 07:14 AM

Thanks for the pic Danial, you have just proved to the rest of the serious cat fish specialists on this forum that you don't know what you are talking about. That fish pictured is just what we thought it might be.

As a result of the stir this strand has caused I have been on the phone, MSN, and ICQ to real cat fish people in Qld, NSW, and yes two in victoria, SA and WA and no one I spoke to as every heard the name "Brown Peppermint". So if it is in general use in your society you are on your own.

As for it being a "new" Ancistrus that none of us have heard of?? not a hope !!! There are a number of us very close to the channels these blokes come through and more often than not know about them before they even arrive in Australia.

This argument is reminiscent of the "Banjo Bristle Nose", and Corydoras similus/C caudimaculatus, C julii/C trifaciatus fiascoes we endured from Victorian "experts" in the last few years. So far it has been three - zip to the members of Auscat. I have spoken privately to 11 other cat fish specialists (who between them have over 300 years of fish keeping experience), viewed the fish in question, and am convinced that it is now Auscat 4 - Vic fish keepers 0.

So don't get too excited folks, most of us already have that species, they have been bred for a few generations here, just we call them something different.

Sheesh ! wish we could get that price for them though. :\

Alan

When life gives you lemons ask for a bottle of tequila & salt



#26 Boots n all

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Posted 28 June 2004 - 01:45 PM

Okay lets clear a few thing's up.......
l was always told "if you dont know the answer ask the question" and l did, l have not heard the name before and l thought l had missed out on somthing so instead of making a statemen l asked a question, the right thing to do;) .

Spooky, you right Bilby jnr did not quite handle it right, but as for "sacrcastic comments" l can think of one by yourself in relation to a WTB on Boronia???
As for me having a problem with "Geoffagus", l have not meet the man, next time we are in the same room you may introduce us if you like?????

Pete, as l have just said l dont have a problem with Geoff,
and for you to say l have a problem with his "fish keeping successes" l dont even know what fish he keeps(apart from one rare fish that we both have)this is only looking for problems and l am shocked/disappointed that it has come from you!
l have started this thread asking a simple question if you have read more into my actions than that, its sad.
This is ahobby, you know funnnnn:lol , lets try and keep the questions ABOUT FISH rather than looking for what is not there in relationships.
As l said earlier, you/we must bare in mind that anovice may and hopefully will come though anyone of these forums to buy a fish and if there is confussion over the name for us, what hope does the novice have, so lets keep it calm and lets try to keep the names "Common" amongst ourselves at least.



#27 NewChemistry

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Posted 28 June 2004 - 01:50 PM

Be fair Alan, there are some very good Victorian fishkeepers...even a few catfish-a-holics that don't make "uneducated statements"*:rollin



*Not implying Bilby jnr made an uneducated statement. I just think its funny Geoff responded that way, considering we've all seen what the fish in question is now:good

Edited by: NewChemistry at: 6/28/04 5:51 am


#28 Guest_Alan Caboolture_*

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Posted 28 June 2004 - 06:28 PM

Cool *Crash*,

Sorry I left you off my call list, didn't have a phone number, or any other method of contact.

And I agree, some real 'with it' guys down there who don't use short rulers or forget that the rest of the world measure their fish SL. ;)

Alan

PS and you DO play REAL football !!!

Edited by: Alan Caboolture at: 6/28/04 10:45 am


#29 petroby

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Posted 29 June 2004 - 12:57 AM

G'day All, it is a shame that fish keepers have such closed minds, and that some are just plain mischievous.
These fish are nothing like the red spot/orange spot fish,L110 sold by AI. The fish bear no resemblance other than that they are an Ancistrus type fish. The colour of the spots are very diferent, plus the fish grows much larger than the other species.
I suggest that certain people who seem only to delight in causing trouble should bow out of the Aquarium Hobby and take up something else. Especially when they supply cross breed eartheaters as pure bred fish.
I believe the same name is used in New South Wales as well.
:chomp



#30 Chilli Powder

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Posted 29 June 2004 - 01:34 AM

petroby,
Your accusations are not warranted nor are they based on solid evidence. We all know who is being referred to here so there is absolutely no need tiptoe around this topic. Many might regard your comments and innuendo to be mischievous. Should you bow out of the game??

Can you prove that crossbred earth eaters have been sold? Can you prove that the second lot of fish bought by Jon are infact the crossbred ones and not the ones sold by David?

I await your reply to these questions as they have not been answered on the VCS forum. Also growing a green horse face 2cm per month.. C'mon whom are you kidding. The water change setup and food source alone must compete with that of AI to achieve this? Surely a hobbyist at home would need 24hr care to get a horseface from 3-4cm to 14-15cm in 6 months. PM me if you prefer.

Same name for the so-called 'brown peppermints' used in NSW? I don't think so. I just called up some very reputable fish keepers in Sydney. No one had ever heard of such name. Looks like it may have originated from an over zealous fish keeper wanting to re-name a fish? :\

I do apologise for dragging this along but I just couldn't sit still when I was reading this.

Cheers.

Arj.


Arj’s Aquarium | Chilli_Powder@telstra.com | Melbourne

Edited by: Chilli Powder at: 6/28/04 5:36 pm


#31 cichomaniac

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Posted 29 June 2004 - 05:12 AM

Well I have just bred a new catfish that is so rare no body knows about it yet , it is white with black spots and they are called the reverse peppermints , or the more common name of the Collingwood catfish .

I have bred around 1000 of these guys and are ready to flood the market so before anyone says anything . I am well known in the fish industry and thousands of people know me , well hundreds of people know me . Ok at least two people know me .

And don't start saying they look like common bristlenose that have been painted white and then had a black water proof texter dots put on them .

Also they don't move about much , infact they don't move at all but they are not dead they are just very lazy catfish .

Will be taking orders soon .

Regards
Luke

Ps Now if you think my post is stupid just have a look a what everyone else is saying , I think we all need to calm down a touch and get back into enjoying fish keeping .:p



#32 knattank

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Posted 29 June 2004 - 05:39 AM

Hey luke

Sorry mate, I have seen these fish on the market already. DNA testing shows that they are x-breeds. Comming from Collingwood, they're inbred at best.
:)

Knat



#33 Slartibartfasts

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Posted 29 June 2004 - 06:52 AM

Ahh Luke the force is still with you :lol

Can ya get some in red and black? tongue.gif



#34 Geoffagus

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Posted 29 June 2004 - 08:26 AM

Firstly I would like to thank spooky and all my friends and the vcs members that have backed me up through all of this .
:good :good :good

Now for all you self proclaimed experts out there who were prepared to comment without knowing that facts.
:nsg :nsg :nsg

In an attempt to sort all of this out, I took a trip to Aquarium Industries today and purchassed a trio of
A. Leucosticus, Orange spotted Bristlenose.
(this is exactly how the fish is listed with Aquarium Industries)
We (Spooky and I) have taken a few Photos of what was obtained today.




Here is a pic of the fish posted previously by myself and Spooky, which is of approximately the same size (the fish) as the above pix. (note the gravel size 6mm in both lots of pix)

Please take a good look at the above pic, note the difference in head (and in fact overall shape), there is a unique cratering (are you gonna flame me for that too?) in the top of the head, possibly not too obvious at first glance. This is consistent through juvenile to adult fish, as can be seen in the following pix.
Next we go to colouration or markings.
Yes the fish have a couple of similar orangish markings on pectoral and dorsal fins, but thats where the similarity ends! (if you've had a good look at the pics so far that is)
Note the difference in the size and regularity of the spotting and indeed the colour of the spotting.
I might add at this point, that I and spooky actually had 20 between the two of us to begin with and all 20 of those juvenile fish were identical to each other complete with head cratering!
(Neither Peppermint nor regular/garden variety Bristlenose exhibit this trait, and believe me, I checked all mine, and I have plenty, before posting this!)
So all the people that I'm sure will say NOW that these fish are crossed, one word, research!
Also very unimpressed about having to upset lots of happily spawning catfish in an attempt to prove a point to a couple of prawns from the other side of the country who just know it all!

The following pix are of our adult fish (which is the full brother from the same batch of the fish in pic #4 (above) which is now about 2 years old)

Follow the link as its the closest resembling fish that we could find including using the LATEST Aqualog Loricariidae all L- Numbers hardcover, for those assuming that we are using a 5 year old outdated book.
L182
The last Photo shows the same fish as previously pictured out of the water.
Thanks to Spooky for being the hand model in the pic :rollin

We are yet to see a picture of any of "your" adult or otherwise orange/red spot bristlenose.

As for the very clever remarks from Alan and Shaun regarding Victorian Fish keeping, update your books, do some more research and in a couple of years you may be able to talk to us! :bd

I am not prepared to go through each and every post and quote all your erroneous comments then pick them apart, which you all really deserve anyway, I will simply say that the fish I advertised is most definitely not the fish you all assumed it to be which should be obvious even to the untrained eye.

I am sure however that you will not consider anything outside your little box and can find some more ridiculous arguments to further your cause.

I hope on the other hand that you might consider that someone outside your own little clique can have fish you haven't yet seen in this country.

In closing, any attempt to slander what has been said in this post will not be answered. If it is of a constructive nature (which I hope that it is) maybe the fish in question can be identified properly.



Cheers
Geoff...



#35 Kimbo

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Posted 29 June 2004 - 03:45 PM

my little ones look exactly like number 4 (spookys ones) and i bought them as orange spots from sydney but those ones from AI i havent seen before so i hope this helps ya Ill try and get you a picture if you want photographic evidence:bd



#36 Tammy Brisbane

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Posted 29 June 2004 - 05:08 PM

Hi all,

Think most have aired their views on the subject, but seems to be going a little off track and becoming too personal. So unless you have something constructive to add, its best left unsaid.
I would hope anyone with any grievances can settle them privately, after all we're all here for the love of the fish.

Tammy



#37 anchar

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Posted 29 June 2004 - 05:34 PM

Hi all,
Here in Perth, I have never heard of "brown peppermints"...I have heard of "orange-spot" being described as "brown peppermints with orange flashes on the pecs". From the pics. posted, they certainly look like two different species. Perhaps it is a case of those who don't know for sure....stay out of the argument;) ???

merjo:)



#38 knattank

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Posted 30 June 2004 - 04:24 AM

Hi all

The question "has anyone ever heard of brown peppermints" still stands. As far as I am concerned, Brown Peppermints do not exist. The answer to the aforementioned question is "No." Try an internet search engine. www.google.com.au No one in the world has cared to post any information about them. Except for this forum and the last.

The Peppermint bristlenose is a misnomer - in fact L182/183 was originally called a Snowflake (in Australia), and is called a Starlight everywhere else in the world. No doubt the misnomer was started by importers / overzealous fishidiots like us. Starting another misnomer? Doing it on purpose.. well it would likely get you executed in China or S America. :bd

On the other hand you have the Peppermint pleco - L031. I am yet to even hear of any one keeping Peppermint pleco's in Australia. If someone is, post a pic.

Knat



#39 nizmonathan

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Posted 30 June 2004 - 04:43 AM

Guys i think everyone has given there opinion, wheather its right or wrong. By the looks of it this is going to be an never ending story. Lets all get over it.:good

Edited by: nizmonathan at: 6/29/04 8:43 pm


#40 Tammy Brisbane

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Posted 30 June 2004 - 04:58 AM

Think this has dragged on long enough, unless you have something constructive to add don't bother, posts will be deleted.

Tammy






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