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All Fish Hobbyists - You Need To Know This Urgently


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90 replies to this topic

#41 Fox

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Posted 26 October 2008 - 07:21 PM

Yep Steve, I have spoken to an RSPCA board member before about aquarium fish.
He tried to make the RSPCA think about customs, quarantine etc take the fish and kill them, their answer was something along the lines of "We dont really care as they are only Goldfish" something like that, but they dont want to know anything about it..

#42 Fox

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Posted 26 October 2008 - 07:47 PM

Comments like this:

QUOTE
I personally would love to breed 10,000 D.comps and release them.
Or release Cichla in north QLD


Will just make the laws pass..
Joke or not, Aquis dont see it as a joke. They take it seroiusly! Please think about what your posting before you post it.
And yes I did copy & paste this from the other forum in W.A. If you have a problem with it, PM me..

#43 Elle

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Posted 26 October 2008 - 08:47 PM

My two cents

This is a horrible way to deal with an environmental threat.
I mean yes if we put our fish (why? would we) into the local waters then yes we have a problem.
I dont think any one wants the australian environment to be threatened.
However, i dont believe that this threat can be stopped by taking away something that clearly so many of us cherish.
Why do these species have to be destroyed? Can't they simply use the time and money that other wise would be spent on law suits, detective work, and destrution ect to educate people on what to do instead of dumping fish and how to keep fish. I have only been involved in this hobby for little over a year and the amount of people that ive seen in that time who (dont know all to much about the hobbie) keep fish and have been ill informed as to how to keep them has been numberous. As is the amount of times i have heard people say how easy it is to keep fish (i think we all know that it is much more involved).
Suggestions
Maybe to keep these fish you should have a license
Maybe we should make people aware of there options because you cant just kill something if it isnt right for you!!!
Advertise options for people who dont want there fish any longer. other wise its not going to stop.

I have sent it to them too
I cant see how this is the only way for them to get the results they want. I believe they are being lazy and are ill informed


Elle

#44 Fish Antics

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Posted 27 October 2008 - 12:58 PM

QUOTE
On November 7 this National Group is required to make their recommendations to the Ministerial Council and as we are aware the outcome will have ramifications for all of us.

I have been informed however, that due to the amazing response from you dear Hobbyists and your emails and letters, a Senior Agricultural Manager has commented that there was no communication strategy in place to capture the hobbyist view point and that there should be recognition of the value and knowledge of the trade at this level.

There has been a recommendation made that stakeholders workshops be held to rectify this and that the grey list remain in play until this has occurred and the outcome more evenly awarded.

What does this mean - it means that for now we appear to have gained a small stay and will be offered the opportunity of a voice..


Congratulations to all those people who took some action and emailed or wrote letters. From this and other posts nationally it looks like our voices have been heard.We need to make sure that the pressure does not let up.

Tony biggrin.gif


#45 Mr_docfish

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Posted 27 October 2008 - 04:49 PM

TROUT



QUOTE (Cicolid @ Oct 27 2008, 01:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
...This is a transcript from AM. The program is broadcast around Australia at 08:00 on ABC Local Radio.

JON BRYAN: .....

The trout is seen as a recreational resource.

(Jon Bryan from the Tasmanian Conservation Trust)


I have always had a way to deal with Fisheries when they try to put the heavy Big Brother hand on me..... I mention the TROUT word.... they shut up pretty quick....

The fisheries add trout to our waterways (which for us in illegal - but they have khaki uniforms with badges, so they can do what they want) but they say it is to create in income for the government in the form of licences to catch the trout - but do not mention the devastated native Shrimp, Marron and Galaxia population - oh no don't mention that!!!
Trout are OK, they are exempt from all AQIS literature as "except Salmonids" ..... in fact they are illegal imports themselves!!!!! so why are they allowed to breed them and release them into the rivers.... if we asked them to allow us to import another species of "recreational fish" then the subsequent "impact assessment" will not allow it.... so why are Trout still exempt????
And don't mention also that the average trout punter that goes fishing with the aforementioned licence might be clever enough to use some sort of live bait (like goldfish, or the weather loach - which looks like a galaxia in shape (sort of), and is now found in many water ways that you find trout in..... (you make your informed decision how weather loaches got there!!)
BUT it is the humble aquarium keeper that releases the fish (and why would they if they can get a few bob for them at the LFS?????) not the trout punter... oh no, they are responsible people, they spend money on expensive licenses!!!



When they ban the releasing of trout.... then I will take those government bastards responsible seriously....



#46 Fox

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Posted 27 October 2008 - 07:32 PM

Good point Oliver, Just spend some time in Tasmania, you would have a great time dealing with Inland Fisheries, the trout & salmon industry blocks the trade & sale of bred fish from the average Joe.
Down to it's illegal to BREED your cichlids or any other fish at home unless you kill off your fry or keep them for yourself.
No selling or trading to LFS..

What a great place... PFFFTTTTTTTTTT

#47 Hydonia

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 11:25 AM

Sent mine

#48 Cicolid

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 05:42 PM

This was posted on Tropheus Fanatics by Aline whi onviously more infromed than anyone in WA.

Please read & send those letters.

Col


NB They will be meeting on Friday November 7

Remember that we are seeking their assistance in this matter as RESPONSIBLE hobbyists that understand the need for controls but would like them to be relevant and valid.

For the attention of :-
Mr Anthony Burke, Minister DAFF, PO Box 6022, Parliament House, Canberra, 2600
Tony.Burke.MP@aph.gov.au
Mr Peter Garrett, Minister DEWHA, PO Box 6022, Parliament House, Canberra,2600
Peter.Garrett.MP@aph.gov.au
Mr Anthony Moore, Bureau of Rural Science, GPO Box 858 Canberra 2601
anthony.moore@brs.gov.au
Mr Nick Gascoine, Department of Environment, Water, Heritage and the Arts GPO Box 787, Canberra, ACT,2601
nick.gascoigne@environment.gov.au


Dear Sirs,

Re: Proposed extension of the Australian and National Noxious Fish List

It has been brought to my attention that your department(s) intend to upgrade all of the fish species currently on the National Grey List to the category of Noxious, and I wish to object and oppose such action.

I am alarmed that this intention was only made known to a few industry representatives last week yet is proposed to be finalised by 7th November. This is clearly inadequate time for all interested parties to be informed and respond, and I preface my objections with a request that any decisions be delayed for sixty days to enable fair and reasonable consultation. I note also that to date that consultation which has occurred has mainly been with parties such as industry wholesalers who are largely unaffected by the proposal, and you need to be made aware of the very large number of retailers, hobbyists and members of aquarium societies who will be adversely affected.

Unlike the current Noxious list, the proposed extension now includes many widely owned aquarium species, and many of the most prized and valuable in the hobby. Fish such as the American Cichlids and other interesting fish form the heart of the collections of many serious aquarists. Many hobbyists have invested considerable time and finances in their hobby, which your proposal would wipe out over night.

Any re-categorisation should be on a species by species basis, not a blanket ban, from A Strategic Approach Of The Management Of Ornamental Fish In Australia (ASAOTMOFIA 2007) “The OFPWG proposed that a scientific/technical working group be established, drawing relevant expertise from around the country (academia, museums, government, industry and private sector) to conduct assessments of these species. The proposal is that grey list species will be put through the risk assessment framework with the scientific/technical working group providing information on species (although detailed information will be limited for many species) and ultimately deciding the status of species guided by the outcome of the risk assessments. It is critical that the PIAA and representatives of the hobby sector are directly involved in this process, or acceptance of the process and the outcome by the wider ornamental fish/aquarium trade will be unlikely.” as and the "scientific" basis for such action needs to be both reasonable and transparent, and widely consulted rather than just an arbitrary subjective departmental opinion. Many of these species could not survive and/or reproduce in our waterways - due to temperature, water chemistry and predators - and even of those that theoretically could many have been kept as pets here for decades without problem. Moore (2007) in “Genetic threats of liberated aquarium fish in Australia: is endemism the key?” advises that there is no likelihood of hybridization with native species due to the foreign fish belonging to different scientific families.

How can one reasonably claim the listed fish are worse than many not targeted, or is the ultimate intention to ban all non-native Australian fish? How can it be that a common goldfish is not banned when it can and does live in our colder and polluted waterways. Taken to it's logical conclusion are we to tell 30 percent of the Australian population (Donnelley 2008) and all pet shops in Australia they cannot keep or sell goldfish, and all Australian children that they cannot have a goldfish in a bowl?

Far from protecting our environment the proposal will have the opposite effect. Regrettably it will spawn a black market just as has occurred with other prohibited species (Marceil Yeater in Kecse-Nagy, K.; Papp, D.; Raymakers, C.; Steiner, A. and Theile, S.2004) and remove any chance of proper regulation and disease control. And fish which are today’s treasured pets and unlikely to be released in waterways will become worthless and in the hands of many alienated hobbyists made into “criminals” by a stroke of a pen.

If this becomes law, the federal and the state governments will have to police it, and right now they do not have sufficient fisheries personal to prevent smuggled species entering Australia, let alone be able to employ more staff with adequate specific aquaristic knowledge of these species to be able to clearly identify the animals in possession of the aquarist or retailer

Certainly there are species on your list that need attention, but there are many that do not, and thought also needs to be given to alternatives such as registration, micro-chipping of some other more questionable species. The terms of reference for ASAOTMOFIA 2007 suggest there should be “a process for dealing with species already in the country deemed to be undesirable, including but not limited to recall/removal/licensing, monitoring, and surveillance”.
I urge you to take a far more considered and informed approach to this issue.

Yours Faithfully

Signed_______________________

Dated________________________

-A Strategic Approach Of The Management Of Ornamental Fish In Australia – 2007 (ASAOTMOFIA 2007)
-Donnelley, Ryan (2008) Australia: Quality and Stewardship – Australia’s Global Position – Cairns Australia
-Aquarama Magazine 2008 CMP Asia Trade Fairs Pty Ltd – Singapore.
-Moore (2007) in “Genetic threats of liberated aquarium fish in Australia: is endemism the key?” Bureau of Rural Sciences Presentation.
-Yeater, Marceil, ( CITES Secretariat) Beyond Seizure: Prosecuting CITES Offenders – in - Kecse-Nagy, K.; Papp, D.; Raymakers, C.; Steiner, A. and Theile, S. (2004): Proceedings of the International Expert Workshop on the Enforcement of Wildlife Trade Controls in Central. Eastern Europe. 3-4 June 2004, Budapest, Hungary. TRAFFIC Europe, Brussels, Belgium.



#49 Pyro-San

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Posted 06 November 2008 - 08:41 AM

http://inmycommunity...byists/7512129/

QUOTE
Fish grey list baits hobbyists

06/Nov/2008

By Lucy Rickard

Average Rating: 3 stars

Comments:

HOBBYISTS are up in arms over proposed changes to laws controlling ornamental fish that will see hundreds of species banned.

State and Federal government representatives are meeting this week to discuss the risks of a range of ornamental fish that have been placed on a grey list.

Many fish groups, whose main communication lies on internet forums, have been lobbying government officials to postpone any decisions to allow adequate time for public comment.

A grey list of fish already exists, and the concerned hobbyists and retailers were under the impression that they would all be transferred to a noxious list at this week’s meeting.

Stephanie Turner, principal management officer of Biosecurity at the Department of Fisheries, said the meeting would involve representatives from State and Federal governments and the aquarium industry.

“There is a lot of misinformation out there about this meeting,” she said. “There is a formal process to follow and this is just one of those steps.”

Ms Turner said the main outcome of the meeting was to evaluate results from technical experts who would present the risk assessment for a number of fish on the grey list. “This is a sensitive issue,” she said. There will be changes, however it was not an overnight decision and would not be made without a consultation period.

Hazelmere resident and life member of the Perth Cichlid Society Terry Rowlands is one of thousands of hobbyists who would lose his pets if a ban was to come into effect.

He said he had been aware of governments creating a noxious list for two years, and had been surprised to find out three weeks ago of this meeting.

“It is impossible to predict what is going to happen if legislation was enforced,” he said.

Mr Rowlands is concerned about all the people who, like him, have a collection of fish as pets in their home that would have to be disposed of with a noxious list.

“Of course there are always going to be irresponsible who might release their fish into the wild,” he said. “But for most of us, the fish are our pets and we don’t want to put them down.”

Common fish such as the koi fish, cichlids and many imported ornamental fish are on the grey list.



Just saw that article, thought it was appropriate smile.gif

[edit] just hit perthnow.com.au

http://www.news.com....74-2761,00.html


QUOTE
Pet fish grey list baits hobbyists
Article from: inmycommunity.com.au

November 06, 2008 05:13am

HOBBYISTS are up in arms over proposed changes to laws controlling ornamental fish that will see hundreds of species banned.

State and Federal government representatives are meeting this week to discuss the risks of a range of ornamental fish that have been placed on a grey list.

Many fish groups, whose main communication lies on internet forums, have been lobbying government officials to postpone any decisions to allow adequate time for public comment.

A grey list of fish already exists, and the concerned hobbyists and retailers were under the impression that they would all be transferred to a noxious list at this week’s meeting.

Common fish such as the koi fish, cichlids and many imported ornamental fish are on the grey list.
Read the full story at inmycommunity.com.au Read the full story at inmycommunity.com.au



#50 Hawka

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Posted 06 November 2008 - 02:10 PM

Hi

I have been away and only just heard about all this last night. I am so annoyed as there is no way i will be getting rid of any of my cichlids. They are my babies as I cant have any other pets......
Does anyone have any updates on what is going on as I am confussed about weather or not we have till tomorrow to destroy our fish.
Also does anyone know where i can go to look at this grey list to see what fish are on it.

Thanks

Jess

#51 Elle

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Posted 06 November 2008 - 02:12 PM

http://inmycommunity...byists/7512129/

Any one had a look at the above... LOL nice pic terry

Its good to see that this is being acknowledged

Cheers

Ps ive been trying to find a list of the fish that are in questioned, Does anyone have a copy or a link

Thanks

#52 Sazabi

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Posted 06 November 2008 - 02:31 PM

Nice news update biggrin.gif

Pity the picture of Terry wasnt with a trout biggrin.gif

That'll really say something lolz

#53 Clay

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Posted 07 November 2008 - 08:05 AM

this in the news today...

that catfish looks hungry...

Edited...This link is in the above post...Col

#54 Mudjimba

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Posted 07 November 2008 - 01:38 PM

G'day Elle,

I believe this link might be what your after regarding lists.

http://www.perthcich...showtopic=19314

There is the current noxious and grey lists.

cheers

Mudjimba

#55 Hawka

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Posted 07 November 2008 - 02:01 PM

Hey All

Does anyone know how the meeting went today and if any new news on our fish.

Cheers

Jess

#56 Trekrider

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Posted 07 November 2008 - 08:26 PM

I got a letter back from Gary Gray today - see attached.

Attached File  Gray_letter.pdf   335.05KB   33 downloads

I have read this letter twice now and I'm sure he doesn't actually say anything - typical politician biggrin.gif

At least he did reply.

Regards,

#57 Sazabi

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Posted 07 November 2008 - 08:29 PM

QUOTE (Trekrider @ Nov 7 2008, 09:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I got a letter back from Gary Gray today - see attached.

Attached File  Gray_letter.pdf   335.05KB   33 downloads

I have read this letter twice now and I'm sure he doesn't actually say anything - typical politician biggrin.gif

At least he did reply.

Regards,




lolz, yeah pretty much says what we already know

#58 Fox

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 08:17 PM

I received this today,

TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN

From Norm Halliwell.


Attendees for Hobby/Trade were Mr. Anthony Ramsey (Trade) and Mr. Bill Smith (Hobby). The P.I.A.A. (Pet Industry Association of Australia) supposedly the Peak Body of the Industry, whose representative was Mr. Shane Willis FAILED TO APPEAR, as did Mr. Ron Lewis who was supposed to represent the Hobby also FAILED TO APPEAR and he also did not appear at the 16/10/08 meeting that started all this mayhem, and Mr.Rolly McKay was not asked to attend, as he had too much to say against their ideas at the 16.10.08 meeting, so he was not invited back to the 7/11/08 meeting.

So, if it were not for Anthony and Bill being present, this bunch of idiotic bureaucrats could and would have forced everything through at their own pleasure, and to the hell with what Industry/Hobby wanted.

Thankfully, they FAILED MISERABLY, as all the species of fish that Industry/Hobby wanted were put off until March 2009 for further dissemination and discussions with Industry/Hobby representatives. In other words “we won a battle, but not the whole war” so to speak, but we will keep the pressure on until March 2009.

I find the actions of two individuals namely Mr. Shane Willis, and Mr. Ron Lewis as reprehensible, on such a matter of importance as this was, and there should have been as many industry/hobby representatives present to prevent Government interactions into the keeping, breeding and selling of our fishes.

This group (OFMIG) sent some 50 odd pages of comprehensive correspondence to Anthony Ramsey by email, (at 5.00pm on 6/11/08) that was meant to prove to us that they were going to force their decision making processes upon all of us and they were going to push to have these decisions implemented at the 7/11/08 meeting, with the misguided believe that Industry/Hobby were not going to be able to counteract their decisions, as we would not have had enough time to condense it all. HOW TOTALLY WRONG THEY WERE!

Unfortunately for them, they had not countered on Industry/Hobby resources and emails technology which enable Anthony, myself, and Bill to be fully conversed on all the species they listed in their coloured lists as follows:

1:Purple listed species were ones not wanted by Trade/Hobby.
2:Blue listed species wanted by the Hobby.
3:Yellow listed species wanted by Trade.

Well, I pulled these lists apart in less than one hour of receipt, as I know every single scientifically named species on these lists and I advised Anthony and Bill to tell members of OFMIG to transfer certain species from their Purple list over to the Yellow trade list, and to have all the members of the genera Bryconops spp (Tetras), Astyanacinus spp, all Koi Carp species, all Lucania spp (especially L.goodei), all Lepisosteus spp (Garfishes), Fire Eels, Tyre Track Eels, all Chitala spp (Clown Knifefishes) all Osteoglossom and Scleropages spp (all Arowana’s), Arapaima gigas, Long-Fin and normal blue Shark spp, all Pimelodidiae (redtail cats, tiger shovelnose cats, leiarius spp, Brachyplatystoma spp, Perrunichthys perruno, all Sorubim spp, all Potomotrygon spp (stingrays) all Ompok catfishes etc etc. to be transferred to the trade/hobby lists, as these fishes are all high range priced and prized specimens which industry/hobby needs, especially in these times of economic and financial stresses being felt by members of industry due to the economic downturns being experiences worldwide and here in Australia at present.

So.the “status quo” remains the same as it was before this 7/11/08 meeting, as the Chairman Mr. Will Zacharin whom has always been against our Industry in the past had obviously been told by his Minister M. Anthony Burke MP (reading between the lines) to be conciliatory and to listen to what our concerns are and to give us what we wanted. My letter to this same Minister advising him to use his political persuasion to tell Mr. Zacharin to “pull his head in” and to “back-off”, as only I can put these words, and this letter, together with the involvement of Mr Alby Schultz MP from the southern highlands which was brought into these discussion by Tim Titheradge, and my letter to Danna Vale MP for Hughes, who will be again contacting these Ministers from next week on, made Mr. Zacharin to become “meek and mild” and got Bill Smith to appear before this group for the hobby, even though he told Bill that all the decisions had been made, so he did not know why Bill wanted to attend; to which Bill said we will see on the day what decisions are going to be made.

IF IT WERE NOT UP TO ALL OF YOU WHO WROTE LETTERS, SEND IN PARTITIONS, SENT FAXES AND EMAILS, AND MADE TELEPHONE CALLS AND GAINED SUPPORT FROM LOCAL MP’s IN PARLIAMENT, WE MAY NEVER HAVE GOT THE END RESULT THAT WE ALL WANTED, and I personally thank you all for your support and involvement, because they (their Minister and Government bureaucrats) were overwhelmed by the responses received, and the Ministers involved Mr. Peter Garrett, and Mr. Anthony Burke have in no uncertain terms told the OFMIG to fix it, and to fix it properly, as they obviously do not want to be lumped with several hundred thousands of disgruntled aquarists that may result in hundreds of thousands of fishes being dumped into the environment, if they get it wrong.

I don’t believe personally, that they believed the trade/hobby could muster up enough concerns and the paperwork needed that would prevent them pressing ahead with their decisions. However, they did not count on the tenacity of the industry/hobby when threatened, and the organized and regimented responses that every person, and every retailer from all around Australia, to “stuff-up” their operations to a point that they have to reply to every piece of correspondence that came their way, and this has all been because the responses were generated in less than 10 days from all of us, therein meaning that enough of us put “pen to paper” or through faxes and emails, that we (the people) CAN PREVENT BUREAUCRATS and Politicians from acting heavy handedly against the fishes which we keep, breed and sell. Getting other Politicians involved from Opposition benches in Parliament, like Alby Schultz and Danna Vale and others has worked and worked tremendously.

The future of OFMIG won’t be known until 21/11/08 as the Ministerial Councils involved will be meeting then to discuss to effectiveness and the outcome of the OFMIG discussions. However, DEWAH (Dept. of environment, water, arts and heritage) and DAFF (Dept of agriculture, forrest and fisheries) have stated that this OFMIG only have enough funding and resources till 30/6/09 whereby they have to wind up this issue, because they will cease to operate after this date, Some other Government Department will need to fund the operation of OFMIG if they want it to continue. So, if we keep up the pressure until 30/6/09 this whole issue may just about disappear. Only time will tell, I suppose.

By the way I spoke to NSW Fisheries personnel, about them expanding the State’s NOXIOUS list by some 569 or other number of species, and was duly informed that there were no intensions to do this is the foreseeable future, as they did not have the resources or finances or personnel to police such a huge number of fishes. This was also verified at the meeting according to Anthony Ramsey, and at this meeting Qld D.P.I.advised that they had not made any attempts to increase their list as yet, BUT as of 1/3/09 they would be updating their list when more information is forwarded to them from the OFMIG, and Bill Smith stated he would be putting pressure on the DPI on this issue to see what species are going to be included for that State, to see if any of them are to affect the hobby/trade in Queensland.

Anthony also told me that two fish species, namely, Redfin Perch (Perca fluvialtilis) and all the Sturgeonfishes (Acipenseridae spp) are wanted by both Victoria Fisheries and Tasmanian Inland Fisheries for possible and probable stocking in impoundments in those States, because the redfin are good on the ”end of a line”, as they are fast growers, and possibly the Sturgeon will be used to gather caviar for export. I don’t know how we are going to produce more caviar than Russia and other places do, but that will be up to Victorian Fisheries.

If this occurs, and I have no doubt that it won’t, then the damage these species have done to the environment (especially redfin perch) in areas where they already exist in Australia and elsewhere, may also occur in Victoriia and Tasmania and this will be enormous and our Industry/Hobby will be able to use this against them when we sit down to discuss our ornamental species which are all destined for in-house aquaria, and not for release into the environment.


Once again, thank you to you all for your efforts and involvement, and PLEASE STAY TUNED, AS THIS NEXT MEETING IN MARCH 09, WE WILL HAVE TO WIN, BECAUSE THE GOVERNMENT PEOPLE WILL BE BETTER ARMED WITH INFORMATION ON THE SPECIES WE WANT, AND WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO EXHIBIT A MUCH HEAVIER AND STRONGER RESPONSE MECHANISMS WITH LETTERS, FAXES, EMAILS, TELEPHONE CALLS, AND OTHER MP’s BECOMING INVOLVED, to prevent our fishes being declared as NOXIOUS, and this is a fact, we will all have to face.


Did you love the bit in RED Oliver? Just fantastic isnt it..

So a semi win for us... Thank you all that sent an email/letter or fax in..

#59 CCA001

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 08:28 PM

Thx for the update Az.

A job well done all, I now think they mite actually just listen to us little people a bit more in the future our maybe consult us a little more, before they try and pull the FISH over our eyes smile.gif.

Great Job once again all smile.gif

#60 daci

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 08:40 PM

ooooohhhhhhh yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
laugh.gif





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