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More Lfs Closing ?


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#21 dazzabozza

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 09:54 PM

Azza Azza Azza smile.gif

I think we're going slightly off topic yet I see CCA's and your need to defend yourselves... but at the same time it highlights an issue... this thread is about showing our support for an entity, specialist stores that are forever competing with big chains, online shop and private sales... it's not supposed to be about the individual which is what this thread is turning into.

Tony created a good thread on the same subject about saving our LFS here (a little more productive) than this one wink.gif - http://www.perthcich...showtopic=39592

Group Buys are not an issue. I believe most of the head clashing the PCS has had with you and CCA has revolved mainly around business. Once you're publicly declared to be a business it becomes a conflict of interest, we're not too interested in volume or profit at this point. Once someone is found to be onselling too often it becomes a problem (not saying this is you but they do exist). All explained here under commercial trading - http://www.perthcich...showtopic=23905

You've been on the committee and you know the time spent on discussing these types of issues. I also believe when you were at Midland you also had the odd clash with local onsellers / backyarders, albeit minor in the big scheme of things but still annoying at the time. I believe backyarders and businesses other than our sponsors do play a part in what fish are made available to us but the PCS Inc is a Society, has the interests of the club to consider and sponsors/memberships plays a part of it. Business is business. There are plenty on non-society fish sites out there that don't have to operate within these restraints.

You could argue that the PCS puts pressure on the LFS due to the volume of private sales. You could also argue we take care of a large portion of the second-hand / used market which saves it cluttering the LFS or ending up at the dump. I appreciate that we can work with our sponsors without them feeling threatened that we're taking away their business and using it to their/our advantage by interacting with the hobbyist community which at the end of the day would be a minor percentage of their annual takings.

So as a group of hobbyists lets do what we can by supporting the LFS and guide people that might not be so in to the hobby to do the same. Let this not be about the individual smile.gif


Daz

#22 Poncho

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 10:00 PM

I've done group buys sure for the same reasons as you - nothing to be ashamed of. But I'm not on here jumping up and down complaining at people that no one is supporting LFS's and telling them they'll be sorry though and I've never made any coin from it - not one cent. You see it's the combination of these two things that I find very hypocritical - telling people they aren't buying from LFS enough and then onselling livestock and products at the same time. That's my honest opinion. It's an opinion - just like the ones you two shared a few days ago about how the committee censors stuff and have been inconsiderate to previous sponsors. Am I not to have an opinion because I am chairman? If so, why do I have to accept your criticism but you guys don't have to accept mine? Seems like a double standard and that's the second one of yours I've identified. If you don't like my opinion that's fine, I don't like very many of yours either but I have never once told you not to express them even though I have been accused of doing so.

Now do you really want to know where I've bought rare fish? Seems a bit unnecessary but I can if it will help you make a point.

If I like a fish and they're hard to come by, I get them wherever I can. I've bought kendalli from Midland, trets from Midland, Uaru from malaga, Champsochromis from a Victorian breeder, christyi from a QLd breeder, L elongatus from Aquotix. Geo's from Ronny and Den. I'm all for supporting LFS but if they can't give me what I want, then I'll look elsewhere - I don't pretend to be in the aquarium business and I don't try and pillage their sales.

Like I said before, if you guys can justify in your own head that you're doing the right thing by LFS (I'm only making a little bit of money, I only sell livestock not dry goods) then that's up to you. I for one don't buy it.

PS - Looking forward to that complaint cca001 - a word of advice though, dont be a tightwad and pay your membership first so your opinion will actually matter. Otherwise the complaint will have no bearing (geez, I even have to show you guys how to make a proper complaint against me)



#23 CCA001

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 10:16 PM

Well said daz well said.

I never intended for it to go the way it did but i was just standing up for myself and probably others it may have been aimed at aswell.

Yes i know how much goes into everything for the PCS the same as Az, and it is a job you never get enough thx or pats on the back for.

BUT when something is aimed right at me and is not all 100% true then i am going to stand up and defend myself.

Yes if you do have a open meeting about this i will be there to talk one on one with Poncho and everyone else not just type it from behind the monitor.

If you in the area again this week daz thurs, fri or sat you know were you can find me smile.gif stop by for a chat .

Hey Poncho you only making a little bit of money thats less for the LFS i onsell my fry to Seaview, Aquotix and a few other stores if they dont want all of it the rest goes to the 2 main wholesalers in oz so you are probably making more than me on your fish.
SO you dont sell dry goods do you sell your dry goods when you wan to upgrade.
My business is legite and i have no problems with it or sleeping at night as i said i still buy alot of stuff from Seaview, vebas and Aquotix so i do my fair share for the LFS.

I had this discussion about coming back to the PCS as a member only last week with someone but after this personal attack that i did nothing to provoke, i will now really think hard why i should give the PCS some of my hard earned $$$$$.
But maybe i will just to put a vote forward of NO CONFIDENCE.

Cheers
Adam

Edited by CCA001, 17 January 2012 - 10:26 PM.


#24 Fox

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 10:30 PM

Thanks for replying & giving your opinion Brett wink.gif



#25 CCA001

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 10:37 PM

Hey Poncho one other thing are you paying tax on the fish you sell.

Ye i thought NOT

#26 Terry

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 10:38 PM

Anka
I sold some secondhand gear to you at a very cheap price, I didn't have a use for it. You sent me a pm asking if you could purchase fish off me, most ppl here know that I do not sell livestock or plants privately and that I don't respond to these PMs. Everything I have is available via your LFS, support them or you will loose interest in the hobby because all you will get from the supermarkets is what they can be bothered with and that will be bread and butter items.

#27 Neakit

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 10:39 PM

you claim tax deductions if its a business. Foul line up again.

Edit: note to self hit reply button once.

Edited by Neakit, 17 January 2012 - 10:41 PM.


#28 Anka

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 10:44 PM

QUOTE (Terry @ Jan 17 2012, 10:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Anka
I sold some secondhand gear to you at a very cheap price, I didn't have a use for it. You sent me a pm asking if you could purchase fish off me, most ppl here know that I do not sell livestock or plants privately and that I don't respond to these PMs. Everything I have is available via your LFS, support them or you will loose interest in the hobby because all you will get from the supermarkets is what they can be bothered with and that will be bread and butter items.



Hi Terry,

I have since learned that, but thank you for the clarification.

I've spent roughly $5.5k on my set up, most of which was spent at sponsor's stores (some was spent buying second hand equipment from you, and some buying supplies from bunnings) over the last 3 months so I believe I am well and truly supporting them.

However, I've been finding it quite difficult to find natives.

Who do you supply? Any NoR sponsors?

#29 werdna

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 10:45 PM

QUOTE
Am I in business?


How do I tell whether I am in business?
There is no simple answer to whether you are in business or not, it depends upon the facts in each case. However, you can use the following questions to help you determine whether your activity is actually a business:

Does your activity have a significant commercial purpose or character?
Do you have more than just an intention to engage in business?
Do you have a purpose of profit as well as a prospect of profit?
Is there repetition and regularity to your activity?
Is your activity carried on in a similar manner to other businesses in your industry?
Is your activity planned, organised and carried on in a business-like manner?
Does your activity have characteristics of size, scale and permanency?
Would it be true to say your activity is really better described as a business, rather than a hobby, recreation or sporting activity?
Each time you answered 'yes' to the questions above, it increases the probability that you are in business though no one indicator is decisive, they must be considered in combination and as a whole.

Why does it matter whether my activity is a business?
It matters because it may affect whether:

any money you receive from the activity is assessable income
you are entitled to an Australian business number (ABN), and
you can or must register for goods and services tax (GST).
How does the question of whether my activity is a business affect my tax?
There are numerous areas in which people carry out activities, often in a small way, which may constitute a business. These include, for example, gardeners, tradesmen, and couriers.

If you are carrying on a business:

any money you earn from this activity is generally assessable for income tax
you are generally entitled to claim tax deductions for any allowable expenses you incur in earning this income, and
if your activity results in a loss, you may be entitled to offset this loss against other income or carry it forward to offset against future income, and therefore reduce the income tax you might have to pay in the future.
Common areas where people carry out activities which may be a hobby rather than a business include hobby farming, motor car/bike racing, and hobby ceramics.

If your activity constitutes a hobby or recreation:

any money you earn from this activity is generally not assessable income
you are not entitled to claim tax deductions for any expenses you incur in carrying out this activity, and
if your activity results in a loss, you are not entitled to offset this loss against other income or carry the loss forward.


Copied from the ATO HERE

Andrew

#30 Anka

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 10:48 PM

With passed experience in running a business from my garage I can confirm that for most of you blokes the sale of your fish etc will generally constitute a hobby and therefore will not be a deemed a business for the purpose of gaining assessable income by the ATO.

However, the hobby does pose significant tax benefits if you were running a sizeable operation and so some should consider seeking tax advice to assess whether they can claim electricity, mortgage interest etc as deductions on their income tax.

Edit: sorry this was completely off topic.

Edited by Anka, 17 January 2012 - 11:01 PM.


#31 Terry

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 11:01 PM

http://www.perthcich...showtopic=45426
This was the last of my natives, all were sold except for a few M.australis. I have about 6 Incisis that turned up in a tank after I got rid of the rest.
Anka
Go to shops like Aquotix Gosnells Morley Vebas and Pm(in no order of preference) if they haven't got what you want they will try to get it for you. Go to a supermarket you will get HUH???

I didn't mention all sponsors no disrespect intended, one I won't mention.
Cheers Terry.

The Incisis are from an old bloodline IE: not recent imports, I will deliver them to your LFS with your name on them.
Cheers Terry

#32 Cam85

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 11:46 PM

wow lots of very passionate ppl and i can see where both sides are coming from

#33 bigjohnnofish

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 01:45 AM

did you know in a hobby situation that if you make a profit you still do not have to pay GST untill you reach 85k per annum ???

but as for your annual income it will fall under total income and be taxed as per normal...

selling occasional fish for profit could and can easily be written off with associated deductions in the fish hobby... tanks pumps heaters fishstock food etc... that is the main reason fish hobby doesnt become a fish business very easily...

but back on track... buy local whenever you can... support lfs... so in the long run they can support us by buying our fry!!!

most chain supermarket pet stores only discount dry goods untill their competition is gone then its BANG back up to high prices... they know they cant compete on fish prices so they attack the dry goods hoping to put their competition out of business... give them the thumbs down... its a pity specialist stores cant survive on fish sales alone...



#34 werdna

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 07:26 AM

$75k for gst registration.
And it would be difficult to say it is a hobby if you are looking at that level of turnover.

#35 bigjohnnofish

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Posted 19 January 2012 - 12:11 AM

QUOTE (werdna @ Jan 18 2012, 07:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
$75k for gst registration.
And it would be difficult to say it is a hobby if you are looking at that level of turnover.


ok has it changed? my accountant told me 85k but that was a couple years ago....

turnover isnt an issue its just profit... you can turn over 2 mill but if your costs are 2 mill also then you make zero taxable profit...

anyhow you pay gst on nearly all items when you purchase them anyway....

#36 werdna

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Posted 19 January 2012 - 07:42 AM

Nope, hasnt changed.

And GST registration is based on turnover, not profit.

QUOTE
Who must register?

If you carry on a business, you must register for GST if your GST turnover is at, or above the GST turnover threshold, that is, it is $75,000 or more


As cited HERE smile.gif

#37 bigjohnnofish

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Posted 20 January 2012 - 12:16 AM

thx i see...

maybe my accountant needs updating.... lol.....

but its $150k if its a non profit organisation.... which you would fall under if your not making a profit ?

are we missing a sponsor on the sponsor board? has someone other than malaga deceased sponsorship recently ?


#38 werdna

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Posted 20 January 2012 - 07:29 AM

Only if you are registered as a non profit organisation, like the PCS is.
In your case, no smile.gif

#39 bigjohnnofish

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Posted 20 January 2012 - 11:53 PM

QUOTE (bigjohnnofish @ Jan 20 2012, 12:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
are we missing a sponsor on the sponsor board? has someone other than malaga deceased sponsorship recently ?


????


#40 Poncho

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Posted 21 January 2012 - 06:49 AM

Not that I'm aware of Johnno - recent as in the last 3 months?




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