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[Chris Perth]

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List Of Hybrids

Started by PCS_Committee, Aug 27 2008 10:04 AM
 

I refer to the above post and was curious to know if the Committee had progressed any further in the identification of additional hybrids in the hobby that are subject to point 7 of the T&C.

[Hood]

Hey Chris, I've seen you ask the PCS committee to do a lot now I have been back. Have you thought about actually paying for a membership to help support the club at the very least? As you surely do realize these are just some good people giving of their time to make this hobby group. Their not actually the fish police. And maybe try switching your focus to more positive aspects of the hobby instead of just constantly focusing on the negative. I'm not saying your post here isn't valid. But you sure do seem to focus on these negatives a lot and ask the committee to do a lot of work. You might find life a bit nicer and the hobby a bit more enjoyable contributing to more positive aspects of it.


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[malawiman85]

Agree 100%. One thing that irks me lately is all this focus on hybrids...

The reason it irks me is because I haven't seen people sharing pics, stories and breeding information on quality fish. Az used to and still does to a lesser extent take some good photos and generates interest in good quality and often less common species. Humbug has shared some great pics and info too and I'm sure there have been others but it seems no one is promoting nice fish like they used too. Just bleating about bad ones (Not a shot at you Chris, its a hobby wide thing, i think).

I noticed Hood has just shared some photos of some nice fish (Good on you). How bout others give it a go and really promote the shit out of these fish that you bang on about being so passionate about. Show those hybrid slinging bastards how fish are supposed to look... PCS Committee have done some great stuff lately. FOTM for instance is a great initiative.

[Poncho]

That post is very old but at the time it was made it was really just put there just to give newcomers clarity as to why certain fish were not being allowed to be traded on the forums. I don't think anyone really wanted to write an exhaustive list of all hybrids because the reality is that such a list would be endless.

There's been huge debate on this forum over peacocks like marble and dragonblood, legitimacy of trimacs in the local hobby and these blue neon strains that pop up in the smaller American cichlids - oh and the ebjd.

Personally, I'm not a lover of these types of fish. But the committee of years back decided they were to be shunned in an effort to eradicate them from the hobby, lest they corrupt the types of fish they like. It hasn't worked. The "bad" fish are here and for the most part haven't affected the ability to get "good"fish in my opinion. That has been affected by other things such as lack of interest and people breeding to just make money rather than maintain good breeding practices.

It might be time to review these rules. ACE seem to have relaxed the stance on flowerhorns and the world didn't end. Same as American Cichlid Society.

[Chris Perth]

Hey Chris, I've seen you ask the PCS committee to do a lot now I have been back. Have you thought about actually paying for a membership to help support the club at the very least? As you surely do realize these are just some good people giving of their time to make this hobby group. Their not actually the fish police. And maybe try switching your focus to more positive aspects of the hobby instead of just constantly focusing on the negative. I'm not saying your post here isn't valid. But you sure do seem to focus on these negatives a lot and ask the committee to do a lot of work. You might find life a bit nicer and the hobby a bit more enjoyable contributing to more positive aspects of it.


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Ok Hood - I've just about had enough of your crap. My post is perfectly legitimate as if the guidelines are incorrect or out of date how are newbies or others like my self (who has been absent from the hobby for some 12 years) going to know what the guidelines are, or to seek appropriate advice.

 

Not that I have to justify myself to you Hood or others - but just so you are under no illusions, I have been a forum participant (Chris Perth) since 2002, I was instrumental in getting the Oz Catfish and Loach Forum under the umbrella of PCS, I started a section in the then regular publication of the PCS magazine called the Cichlidiot File which encouraged members to tell their Cichlid stories for the benefit of others, a former committee member, and I AM a current PCS member and have been on and off for 20+ years, in addition I have won breeding comps 21+ tanks, and all before you probably left High School. 

 

In addition I think you owe me a public apology for your rudeness and arrogance by insinuating that I am an oddball. At no time have I made any personal comment about or to you.

 

Unfortunately photos were not easily obtained before mobiles but here are a couple of my Cyphotilapia frontosa, and cichlasoma meeki ( I think they are called thorichthys now)  that I was breeding 30 years ago.

 Frontosa1.jpg   98.41KB   13 downloads  Fishroom.jpg   42.45KB   9 downloads  Firemouths.jpg   80.64KB   12 downloads

Edited by Chris Bell, 11 December 2016 - 06:15 PM.

[Terry]

Chris,

 

You forgot to mention your displays at the PCS exhibitions at Fremantle.

An updated hybrid list would benefit all members and Brett any changes to the PCS  constitution would have to be voted on at the AGM by financial members.

 

Cheers Terry

[Hood]

I am very sorry for having hurt your feelings Chris.


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[Poncho]

True Terry, but banning of hybrids isn't specified in that document. However I wouldn't suggest a change to the rules without some kind of serious consultation with members given how delicate the subject becomes.

If there were significant interest in changing these rules from members then committee should consider. Likewise if there is strong opposition then they should be kept and perhaps more effort be put into enforcing them. It's been such a long time since this topic has been discussed seriously, I wonder how relevant they've become?

I can see why Chris is asking these questions

[bigjohnnofish]

my catfish loves hybrids - keep em coming  

johnnos hybrid disposal program is currently in full swing 

   

[Chris Perth]

my catfish loves hybrids - keep em coming  
johnnos hybrid disposal program is currently in full swing 
   

Love your work John

[Terry]

Brett

 Number 2 covers hybrids

 

3. Aims

(1) The aims of the Society are:

1. to promote the conservation of the neotropical family Cichlidae world-wide

2. to undertake responsible husbanding of the species within Australia

3. to educate our members and the general public through fellowship and friendly sharing of knowledge at Society General Meetings, Open Days and Special Promotions.

[sajica]

Welcome back to the PCS Chris, I don't think I've ever met you but It's definitely a name I recognize from my early days of being around the PCS (circa early 2000's). It's great to see more wisdom and experience among the ranks

[Poncho]

Yeah it could cover banning of hybrids but doesn't specify to that degree. It could also cover banning wild caught fish as that is causing a significant impact on certain wild fish populations in the rift lakes, which also contradicts the first objective there. It's hard to argue that keeping WC species to the extent that they become extinct in the wild is responsible husbandry.

But it doesn't include banning wild caught fish as committees of present and past haven't interpreted it that way. Plus I'm not sure such a stance would have any effect - much the same as the effect that we've had banning hybrids some would argue.

So my real point is, if committee or some other member spend hours upon hours trying to invent a list of hybrids, is it actually going to achieve anything? My personal thought is that it won't. But I think these types of discussions are invaluable for bringing attention to the issues of hybrids especially to newcomers - 100 times more than any list.

Hoods point about driving people "underground" is worth considering imo

[bigjohnnofish]

you are always going to get people new to the hobby buying different cichlids to put in a display tank... and somewhere along the long unknowingly create hybrids.... i find it extremely difficult to police any policy on banning hybrids... 

 

i think education is the only answer here... tell people why hybrids arent popular among cichlid enthusiasts... and what danger hybrids present to the conservation of cichlid species...  and also their $$$ value to the aquarium hobby is almost zero.... 

 

knowingly selling hybrids as pure species should be frowned upon and named and shamed... but people selling hybrids clearly labelled shouldnt be frowned upon but actually praised for their honesty..... there is no demand for hybrids so someone looking to make a dollar from them will soon realise and go back to pure species... 

 

nature has hybridised cichlids for many 100's perhaps 1000's of years into the species we have today... and i bet all cichlid keepers are greatfull for the variety that it has created..... so maybe hybridising shouldnt be frowned upon with such anger but something that could be looked into in the future when humans have destroyed all the fish in the wild and there is a market for new colourful fish.... 

 

l-numbered catfish can be hybridised as well - no where near as easy as cichlids and usually only done with closely related species like hypancistrus...

a lot of indonesian and asian countries hybridising catfish is very popular and is creating some different looking fish... quite desired and demand quite large sums of money.... not aware of any of these being done in australia yet but im sure it will happen....

 

[Ageofaquariums]

I love my angels and discus though