15 replies to this topic

[jakefoster]

decided to start my own thread on this. so i have a male electric blue acara (aequidens pulcher) and a female blue acara (also aequidens pulcher) and they are breeding. i have seen a hatred toward the selling of hybrids or crosses whatever u want to call them. now would this be considered as a mix enthusiasts like yourselves would not want hitting the streets? or because its just a colour strain difference its ok? like, if fry survive could i sell them or would i be advised to destroy them? here is my pair of acaras: they are both guarding the eggs.. the chances of fry surviving would be pretty slim i would think though, as they share the tank with a firemouth, an ellioti, a rainbow shark and a school of pretty large congo tetras. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited by jakefoster, 22 December 2016 - 09:04 AM.

[LexAgate]

Hybrids is always a tough one simply because everyone has their own opinion, if the fry looked cool sure I'd chuck one in a display, but to pass them on and sell them as hybrids, doesn't mean the next person will sell them as hybrids... that's where the problem is, no matter how hard you try greedy people wanting a quick buck will ruin it for everyone!


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[Hood]

So please correct me if I am wrong. But;

'Formally Aequidens pulcher, this fish was suggested to be reclassified in 2012 during the study of Andinoacara rivulatus Stalsbergi and the recently discovered Andinoacara bloombergi.[4] The fish was included into the Andinoacara genus due to the genetic similarity with the new family.

I need to do more research, but doesn't that make these the same species?

[jakefoster]

So please correct me if I am wrong. But;

'Formally Aequidens pulcher, this fish was suggested to be reclassified in 2012 during the study of Andinoacara rivulatus Stalsbergi and the recently discovered Andinoacara bloombergi.[4] The fish was included into the Andinoacara genus due to the genetic similarity with the new family.

I need to do more research, but doesn't that make these the same species?

i have no idea! but i am also trying to do a bit of research now


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[jakefoster]

found this:

Afraid that this is a genetically engineered fish. It's made by taking eggs or sperm from an Electric blue ram and then combining it with the opposite number from a blue acara. After that the fry are line bred until the color is stabilized. This process takes only a handful of generations whereas line breeding can take dozens or even hundreds of generations.


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[Hood]

Wow, crazy. Genetically engineered designer fish. Makes me curious to see now how these fry would grow out, and which genetics would show dominance etc.


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[jakefoster]

Wow, crazy. Genetically engineered designer fish. Makes me curious to see now how these fry would grow out, and which genetics would show dominance etc.

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i've actually seen a youtube clip showing the result of this exact cross (eba x ba) and the babies just looked exactly like an original blue acara. like they got none of the electric blue

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Edited by jakefoster, 20 December 2016 - 08:34 AM.

[Hood]

Interesting. That would suggest that the alleles for the electric blue they engineered in place are recessive, much like that of electric blue Jack dempseys. You'd have to isolate the offspring that carry the electric blue genes and then breed them back to each other to create EBA's again this would suggest.
I have read that if you breed two EBA's together, you do get 100% EBA offspring however.


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[jakefoster]

yes eba's create more eba's. it will be interesting to see how the fry turn out.. if they survive! its not exactly a breeding tank environment


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[Poncho]

So please correct me if I am wrong. But;'Formally Aequidens pulcher, this fish was suggested to be reclassified in 2012 during the study of Andinoacara rivulatus Stalsbergi and the recently discovered Andinoacara bloombergi.[4] The fish was included into the Andinoacara genus due to the genetic similarity with the new family.I need to do more research, but doesn't that make these the same species?

Not the same species but the same genus ie like Bolivian butterflies and blue rams - both Microgeophagus but still two different species

[Chris Perth]

Hybrids is always a tough one simply because everyone has their own opinion, if the fry looked cool sure I'd chuck one in a display, but to pass them on and sell them as hybrids, doesn't mean the next person will sell them as hybrids... that's where the problem is, no matter how hard you try greedy people wanting a quick buck will ruin it for everyone!Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I entirely agree with LexAgate - the origional breeder has all the good intention in the world, but it is the subsequent sellers who can potentially stuff it up for everyone. My personal opinion - breed them, see what transpires, keep a couple for display but dont sell them into the general population.

[jakefoster]

thanks for that. i'll definately keep 1 or 2. and hood i know ur interested, and i only give out others on the forum i think. eggs hatched today so the mum has dug a nice little hole in the sand for the wrigglers. cant really see em but the in the hole down the bottom Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited by jakefoster, 21 December 2016 - 03:46 PM.

[Hood]

It's great to watch the caring instinct of parent Cichlids.
Enjoy the process and keep us posted.
I am interested from an academic/learning stand point. It will be interesting to see how the fry turn out and whether any straight out look like dad. Or whether they all look like mum. I'd then be interested to see whether breeding the offspring together have any chance of producing EBA again. I pressume it to be likely you'd have to hope you got the proponent of the offspring which are EBA gene carriers.
Also to clarify and recap for others, jake lists the EBA as Andinocara pulcher and the BA as Aequidens pulcher in his first post, after some research it seems what was Aequidens pulcher was reclassified to Andinocara Pulcher in 2012. So both fish are Andinocara pulcher. Jake then found another excerpt which suggests that the EBA are in fact a genetically modified BA where they took the eggs/sperm of an Electric Blue Ram and spliced them to the alleles which align on the acara for the Electric blue. The resultant offspring were then bred back to BA and line bred until they bred true for the Electric Blue gene.

Edited by Hood, 22 December 2016 - 07:14 AM.

[jakefoster]

i've also since learned they share the same scientific name. i think at the time i was researching the blue acara on one website and the electric blue on another, one of which hadnt updated the name which led me to beleive they had different names!
well hood if they turn out nice and u do decide u'd like one for a display fish i'll deliver and u can pay me in chillies! haha.
quite an impressive selection u have grown!


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[jakefoster]

fry traps in place. and the fry are free swimming now.

they're being excellent parents

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Edited by jakefoster, 24 December 2016 - 11:57 AM.

[jakefoster]

update... 3rd attempt at raising fry. not going so well haha. mum is moving fry from hole 1 to hole 2.... while dad is moving them from hole 2 to hole 1! and they have been going around in circles for a while now. in need of some communication! haha.



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