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Power Cuts


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#1 Donna

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Posted 17 January 2010 - 11:38 AM

Hi Everyone,

I have a couple of large fish now. Big Sev is prettty big and I have one large silver dollar. The rest of my fish are all small.

We had a power cut yesterday, I was home so I got my battery operated airstone going.

My question is, how long can my fish survive if the power should go off for longer?

Which fish, if any would be at the greatest risk?

I have a gourami so I am assuming being a labryinth fish he may fair better?

Thanks,

donna

#2 Cawdor

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Posted 17 January 2010 - 12:16 PM

The main risk factor would be lack of oxygen due to no water movement. How long fish will survive depends on temperature (warmer water retains less oxygen), the tank setup, size and fish species.

Fish sensitive to stress would be the first to go, and larger fish will have more difficulty breathing than smaller fish. Tanks with an open top will be less affected than tanks with full lids or hoods. Small tanks will be more affected than large tanks.

Another thing to keep in mind is that after a prolonged power blackout (several hours), your bacteria in your filter are likely to have suffered big losses due to lack of oxygen. Hence an ammonia spike is likely, so you should always check your water twice a day after a long powercut, and do large water changes if necessary.

#3 Donna

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Posted 17 January 2010 - 12:25 PM

Thanks Tim,

Good point about the filters. I only have the 4ft tank going with fish in it now, my other tanks are planted only, and I have no covers so the water contacts the air directly.

Thanks,

Donna

#4 sydad

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Posted 17 January 2010 - 11:57 PM

Hi Donna,

As Tim said, ultimately the survival of fishes in an aquarium with no water movement will depend on a number of factors. The most important single factor is bioload; that is, the number/size of fishes in the tank.It is possible for an aquarium not to be supplied with any form of water movement or filtration, yet remain perfectly healthy if the bioload is insufficient to cause a significant drop in oxygen concentration, or a sufficient rise in carbon dioxide concentration. Your aquarium appears, from your limited description, to be well within safe limits, and yes the gourami, as a labyrinth-fish would definitely be the last to be stressed, and the last to survive if conditions deteriorated sufficiently.

The filter is another matter. As part of the bioload, the bacteria within the filter will tend to be in a restricted environment with regard to air access. There will be within the filter numerous types of bacteria, and these will differ in their response to reduced oxygen levels. Strict aerobes will succumb fairly rapidly: usually, as Tim suggested, within a few hours. However, it should be noted that such bacteria will be in the minority within the filter, with most bacteria being able to survive high degree, and even total oxygen depletion. These organisms, known as facultative anaerobes, will largely survive, but have to make alterations in their biochemical pathways. In so doing, they will progressively produce more and more metabolites, including ammonia and nitrite.The actual amount of these substances made will depend on numerous factors, but should be minimal in the first 12 hours or so. The good news is that as soon as water flow recommences, these organisms can revert rapidly to nitrifiers and start doing their job again.

Most of the problem within filters will come from the progressive death of organisms other than bacteria. These include protozoans and rotifers, and these release significant waste products as they die. On the other hand, as their numbers decrease, there will be fewer of them to prey on bacteria when the filter begins to function, so allowing the filter to build function relatively rapidly until these organisms can recolonise.

Syd.

#5 Donna

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 09:41 AM


Hi Syd,

Thanks for the comprehensive answer.

What always amazes me with any bio system is how self regulating it can be and how the scales so often tip in the favour of life and living and creating or at least, maintaining the conditions suitable for living things, right from the rotifer up to the more "complex" life forms. I am often reminded of how delicate those systems are, and how if too many of the pieces are removed, disaster can follow.

Regards,

Donna

#6 Kieran

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 09:52 AM

What I don't understand is why cannister filters don't come with a built-in battery backup airstone or pump to keep the various aerobic colonies alive longer. Surel it would be a great marketing advantage even if it barely worked. I realise there are a few problems eg leaking or breaking the syphon, but esp in the US in the hurricane and blizzard areas where they lose power for days at a time this would be better than nothing. Even with a small solar panel backup etc. Just my opinion, and I don't mean to hijack your thread Donna smile.gif

#7 Donna

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 01:25 PM

Hi Kieran,

No probs at all....life is not linear smile.gif one idea leads to another and so on. You can get a continuous power supply rigged up.

With energy becoming more of a concern in our state, and I know some people have very expensive fish (I don't, I have roughies but I still want the best for them) it could well be worth while looking into it.

Regards,

Donna

#8 Neakit

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 02:54 PM

They don't come with the battery back up cause people don't want to spend the extra for it.

#9 OrangeBemba

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 03:21 PM

QUOTE (Neakit @ Jan 18 2010, 02:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
They don't come with the battery back up cause people don't want to spend the extra for it.


I agree it all comes down to price.

If people are that worried they could always use a UPS will provide plenty of backup depending on the size.


#10 Kieran

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 03:48 PM


Yeah, but a decent UPS is about $500, and a tiny battery airpump is about $40. You can buy the rechargeable live bait air pumps from fishing stores for $50. I tend to be wary of cheap UPSs.

What about a battery powered fan pointed at the water surface?

#11 dazzabozza

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 04:04 PM

I think the only advantage in having a backup battery operated air pump within the cannister it to keep the bacteria alive. Having a fan blow across the surface of the tank won't help if there's no circulation between the tank and the cannister. Also I don't know whether a fan will have any impact on Co2 / o2 gas exchange, probably just an increase in evap which leads to a drop in temperature.

Also with the air pump idea I'm not sure how it can be achieved as canisters are pressurised via a good seal. Getting air in there somehow, would break the seal??

UPS's are still the best option and are cheap compared to the value of your fish in most cases.


Daz

#12 golden_dase

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 04:08 PM

QUOTE (Kieran @ Jan 18 2010, 03:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I tend to be wary of cheap UPSs.


And why is that? wink.gif

Did you know that "brand name" UPS products such as APC, Eaton Powerware etc. mainly use the same "cells" in their products? The difference: Price tag for the brand!
I should know.. I used to work for an IT/Battery company.... biggrin.gif




#13 Craig3426

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 04:13 PM

What size/kind of UPS would be required to run a few canister filters?? How long would they last on the UPS??
Also is there a way of just leaving the UPS plugged into the wall socket with nothing hooked up and then in a power failure just hooking the canister power leads into the UPS. I ask about this because my tanks are situated throughout my house and I don't think my parents would appreciate extension leads running around the entire house 24/7, it would be ok I suppose in times of a power failure. smile.gif

#14 golden_dase

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 04:19 PM

Craig, it all depends on the load.. Canisters range in wattages, eg: Eheim 2217 is about 25watts (I think!) so a 700va UPS would probably run it for 1.5 - 2 hours.

And yes, you can leave a UPS plugged into the socket and only connect devices/equipment to it in an emergency.

#15 Neakit

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 04:32 PM

another option is a generator. I have taken a day off work cause it was cheaper for me to buy a generator and run 1 or 2 filters per tank(i had 6 or 7 tanks at the time) and loose a days pay than it was for me to go to work and loose my fish.

#16 jslayz

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 10:44 PM

QUOTE (Neakit @ Jan 18 2010, 04:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
another option is a generator. I have taken a day off work cause it was cheaper for me to buy a generator and run 1 or 2 filters per tank(i had 6 or 7 tanks at the time) and loose a days pay than it was for me to go to work and loose my fish.


That's what I did when western power turned our power off for 8 hours.
Down to Kennards hire, grabbed little genset, got home wired up and all good.
Just had to put up with the noise....

I would love one set up that kicks in if the power goes out!!
That would be ideal.

J

#17 Neakit

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 10:50 PM

yeah i spent 300 and bought one that will last ages.

#18 Craig3426

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Posted 25 January 2010 - 05:33 PM

Hey guys,
Since posting my earlier questions. Energy Australia have decided they need to conduct "Periodic Maintenance" on the power lines surrounding my house. It's on Thursday 7:30am - 4:30pm. To prepare for this outage i have come up if with the following "Action Plan":

*Tuesday - Clean all filters, 15% water change.
*Wednesday - Another 15% water change. Skip feeding fish.
*Thursday Morning - Stress. Skip feeding. *Afternoon - More stressing, continual cursing at the bludgers doing nothing down the road whilst i have no power. 15% water change. Feed fish.
*I have checked the weather forecast and i'm not worried about my tank temps dropping in the outage.
*Run battery air pumps for the duration of the outage.

My main concern is the biomedia in all my filters during this time. I want to know whether you guys think it would be ok to remove all the biomedia from my canisters and put it in those net media bags and place it in my tank near my battery air pump airstone i'll be running. Will this stop me losing all my "benefical" bacteria?? My Aqua One tanks have the built-in wet dry filter in the top, how do you think my biomedia will handle the outage??

*Any other ideas/recommendations??


#19 Cawdor

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Posted 25 January 2010 - 05:54 PM

Yes that's one way of preserving the bacteria. The problem for them is lack of oxygen during an outage, so by moving the media into the tank you can preserve most of the bacteria.

#20 Donna

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Posted 25 January 2010 - 06:09 PM

Hey Craig,

See Syd's reply to me, he describes how the bacteria act in low oxygen situations.

Regards,

Donna




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