50 replies to this topic

[Mr_docfish]

the richgro planting mix is a zeolite type product selected for use in ponds. It contains nothing in its current form that can help your plants, but info on other similar products (aquamedic make one same but adds the required nutrients and trace elements already see the link below) it adsorbs minerals and nutrients from the water column and holds them in the substrate for use by the plants roots. Aquamedic recommend adding a small amount to the bottom third of your total substrate like you would with laterite. It still can be used as a total substrate but wont look good.

Just googled a link
http://www.swelluk.c...alit-6752.html)

My opinion, use it in your pond and find something better - try asking your LFS sponsor and bounce the idea on this forum before you buy.

doc

[skittles]

Im gonna see if i can get a refund on two of the bags leaving one for a substrate layer im thinking of getting ADA amazonia does anyone know where i can obtain some and howmuch it would cost also how many litres per bag
Hey ant yeh i might go that way then i was going to have a pile of rocks over the other side.

[ant747]

you can get amazonia from almost any lfs. Or some online stores, shop around and find a good price, and definately rinse it well and soak it for a day or two before it goes in the tank. I cant stress that enough. Really rinse it good. I did about 5 complete water changes in my tank before the tannins subsided.
Ant

[skittles]

Hey ant where did u get yours and how much if u dont mind me asking

[Mr_docfish]

In general, I do not see the importance of adding any form of 'fancy' substrate to any aquarium - EXCEPT where in situations where you do not wish to use complete trace element fertilizers and therefore require some sort of help for the plants. Most literature that covers the use of products like laterite for use in substrates, comes from the old school when there were no chelated iron based trace element ferts on the market (I'm going back more than 20 years here for all you young ones). The Dutch used Soils and peat at first, and then Dupla were the first to recognize the importance of substrate minerals in their book "the Optimum Aquarium" and pushed laterite (basically an iron/clay based product). With the technology we have today (we are still learning) we have at our disposal, Liquid fertilizers that are in a stable form and can be used in tanks with standard washed quartz based gravels with 100% success. As an example - how do you think people now-a-days can grow plants without soil in systems called 'hydroponics'? Well let us look at our planted aquarium - low and behold, it is a glorified hydroponic system with fish producing nitrogen, and the human adding the macro and micro elements on top of that to make things work! This will work just as well as adding 'fancy' products to our gravel if we did not want to add the 'expensive' fertilizers to our aquariums weekly of daily. But you must consider, how much fertilizer can you keep in 'fancy' gravel additives and how long therefore will it last, and do you have control over how much is made available to your plants from now as to compared to 5-6 years time? Adding liquid ferts to your tank is the better way (only IMO may I say) to control the type and amount of elements you need without over/under dosing on any one element. There are a wide variety of liquid ferts on the market, some with and without Nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium, etc). You are in complete control over what you want to add depending on what plants you want to see growing at their best. (all plants grow in different environments, you cannot grow all varieties of plants in the same tank at their 100% best - some want more water movement, higher temp, more or less nitrogen etc.
Personally I add a simple laterite (something red from up north or in the hills) to the first third of the gravel and cover it with washed gravel and continue for the next 15+ years adding a mix of ferts (Aquasonic basic gro for the nitrogen and sera florena for the right trace elements) to achieve the right balance for the plants that I keep (Ehinodorus, Aponogeton & Cryptocoryne ssp).


This is just my rambling, my opinion. Take it as you will. It would not hurt the plants by putting in all sorts of products into your gravel, the plants will only take what they need from there. But I am a control freak and I enjoy the challenge of keeping plants, and I hate pulling apart my tanks so I can add new substrate ferts all because it was all used up.


Sorry for the long one - had to get it off the chest, so to speak.
If you want to use substrate additives, go for it (if you chose the right one!), eventually you are going to have to add liquid ferts sooner or later or re-new the additive somehow down the track.

Mr_docfish

[ant747]

havnt tried using just a gravel or soil based substrate yet, but thats mainly because i really wanted a black soil, and theres not much around that is a nice deep black. Plus my glosso is going crazy in the amazonia, not to say that it wouldnt in laterite based systems
Ant

[skittles]

Hey doc fish i was also going to use plant fertilizer ive got a bottle at home wich i use for my smaller tank wif the plants im groing up
Also is the red sand you got pindan If so what does this do.

[Mr_docfish]

Hey doc fish i was also going to use plant fertilizer ive got a bottle at home wich i use for my smaller tank wif the plants im groing up
Also is the red sand you got pindan If so what does this do.

I am not sure what you mean by pindan. Either way, I just went up north for a holiday, and grabbed some red clay like soil from off the side of the road (the redder the better), in the past when I was in a hurry to get it, or like now, i don't have the time to take holidays, i found some good stuff in the hills (got caught once stuffing some clay in a take-away container, the ranger said sand mining in a national park was not allowed 8O :oops: so be careful who is standing behind you).

doc

[skittles]

Hey doc fish Pindan is red dirt up north
I have a friends house up in the hills who is on a property and they were putting in post a while ago and escavated quitea bit of clay would this be suitable

[Mr_docfish]

It is too hard to determine what is the best clay and what is not unless you have a lab. But IMO any form of red clay-like material would be of benefit for those plants that uptake the majority of their nutrients through the roots.
just add some to the bottom third of your gravel when setting up a new tank or in older tanks, you can wet it and roll it into a ball and allow it to dry before popping it into the gravel next to plants like swords and crypts.

The roots of some plants will get into the clay, and when in anaerobic conditions, can extract the iron and other minerals from it. The beauty of making minerals available to the roots, the plants can control the amount they need, as compared to soaking the leaves in too much can be detrimental to the plant.

You will still have to add liquid fertilizers depending on your requirements, and when selecting clay, get one with as little organic matter as possible in it.

doc

PS
Some one asked me if hydroponic clay was good - well would you get anything out of a terracotta pot? fired clay wont do.

[skittles]

Hey guys any one going down to the auction tonight