35 replies to this topic

[Bombshocked]

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Edited by Sir_Anubias, 09 April 2014 - 11:18 AM.

[Mononoke]

What peat are you using ????

I shelled out and tried the Eheim peat pellets, around $25 for a small packet.

[sydad]

This Is Due To The Buffering Capability's Of The Water, Soft Water Has No Buffering Capability Where As Hard Water Has High Buffering Capability,

So If You Start With Soft Water Its Always Easy To Buffer It To Your Needs,

But If You Have Hard Water Its Going To Want To Stick To Its Original PH/GH/KH And Unless You RO This Hard Water Its Really Difficult To Buffer It Because Its So Stubborn And Returns To Its Original Values Over Time

 

This is unfortunate misinformation. Water is considered " hard" only if it contains dissolved divalent ions... usually either or both calcium / magnesium. Water containing only  carbonates or bicarbonates of monovalent cations for instance is by definition "soft", but will have buffering capacity depending on the concentration of those solutes. That is to say it will have a kH; concentration dependent, and this is what constitutes "buffering" capacity. The notion that soft water has to be acid is a common fallacy.

 

Consider the situation that pertains if water contains large quantities of dissolved  divalent ions as salts of strong acids, such as hydrochloric acid (chlorides). The water will be by definition hard, but will have virtually zero buffering capacity, low or no kH, and will be acid.

 

Syd.

Edited by sydad, 09 April 2014 - 09:30 AM.

[Bombshocked]

i like it how no one post anything informative then when u try to help they shoot you down half the reason no one likes posting here...

 

i was simply stating that if you RO your water you can reduce the ph easier god why do people make up some crackpot theory about what ifs

 

Consider the situation that pertains if water contains large quantities of dissolved  divalent ions as salts of strong acids, such as hydrochloric acid (chlorides). The water will be by definition hard, but will have virtually zero buffering capacity, low or no kH, and will be acid.

 

I highly doubt this was the case in this specific situation i was simply trying to help but seeing your so good at it maybe you can re-explain it to michael

Edited by Sir_Anubias, 09 April 2014 - 11:28 AM.

[Rod]

One has to understand the chemistry involved…..but more importantly the needs of the fish

Some seem to simply target a number….ie low pH…but there is much more to it

 

Aiming for numbers without understanding the real needs of a particular species can get you into a lot of trouble

 

Remember ALL fish live in water that started from the sky….then depending on surrounding terrain…chemicals/organic material is added

so in a perfect world we should start with rainwater(or RO) and add the relevant materials….

Unfortunately the terminology is often confusing…..many "soft water" species live in rainwater filtered through decaying organic matter

So many should be termed "rain water" fish….not "soft water" as it applies to chemistry

 

I like to keep my fish keeping simple….and it seems to work for me

soft water fish….apisto's, wild type bettas, West African cichlids….

They generally like low TDS low conductivity

 

I used RO or rainwater with a small amount of treated tap water + ketapang leaves

 

I never use buffers(other than whats in tap water)for soft water species in particular NaCl

I don't believe you can add anything to hard water (other than pure water) to make it suitable for soft(rainwater)water species

 

I've found that keeping soft(rain) water fish in water that is too hard eventually overloads their kidneys and they end up with dropsy

I've spent lots of money over the years on antibiotics trying to cure this problem….when the simple answer was to use rain/RO water

 

Hard water fish (tangs) it's tap water + few nonNaCL salts Epsom salts and Bi-carb soda

Endlers I add NaCl….aiming for high TDS and high conductivity

 

Tricky ones are the Dario's as they like soft,alkaline water

so RO water + 10% tap water

 

I aim for weekly 30% water change for all

 

With the fish that like soft acid water I like to have water for changes prepared at least a week before the change

ie RO water + tap water + ketapang leaves

Edited by Rod, 10 April 2014 - 02:28 PM.

[Just Drive]

Here's an idea, get a bucket fill it with tap water and dump sum peat in it, then let it sit for a while and take a few Ph, kH,and Gh tests.

[Michael the fish fanatic]

Could I use RO water without the ph down or will it fluctuate, my RO water ph is 6-6.5

[Rod]

Your RO water + ketapang(Indian Almond) or dried banana leaves....perfect for bettas
Just add 10% treated tap water as buffer

Let a leaf float and they he'll build his nest under it!

Edited by Rod, 10 April 2014 - 06:06 PM.

[Michael the fish fanatic]

I'm not talking about betta's I just asking if I can just use straight RO

[Rod]

For which fish?

Not all fish are the same

[Michael the fish fanatic]

No I know that, but what I'm asking is do I need to add anything to RO water if the ph is fine for the fish, or will it fluctuate ????

[Rod]

Adding tap water provides some buffer.....doing 30% water change each week insures some buffer is maintained

With some species...wild bettas and West Africans I don't add a buffer because I'm Happy for pH to drop to 5 or less

It's not all about pH....

Edited by Rod, 10 April 2014 - 06:22 PM.

[Michael the fish fanatic]

Will RO water ph go up or only down ????

[Rod]

RO water is most likely to go down.....but that's assuming everything in the tank is neutral
It may go up dependent on rocks, ornaments or substrate of your tank

[Michael the fish fanatic]

Oh ok thanks for all your help Rod.

[BristledOne]

the thing with RO water is you often need to re-mineralise it for your fish. Using pure RO water or rainwater can sometimes cause harm.
If you do go down the path of using RO water try to find an additive suited for the fish you intend on keeping, Seachem for example make a "Discus Buffer" designed for RO water and discuss. Aquotix I believe sell some types, one for example is  in this old thread:: LINK


Most RO units designed for Aquarium use are 3 stage filters (and often have aquarium use on the side) humans shouldn't be drinking water from these units. Meaning if you have an RO unit already in the house for drinking it's probably a 2 or 4 stage filter, either not completely removing everything from the water or actually adding stuff back in to raise the PH to safe levels for humans (worth checking before use)