52 replies to this topic

[Bombshocked]

were you measuring tds? what plant species were you keeping were you injecting c02?

 

give those drums a blast out with hydrogen peroxide

 

edit:after some thinking what substrate were you using, mine was ada and when the kh fell to 0 ph plummeted maybe if you had inert sand/gravel in your tank it would explain why nothing melted possibly your ph stayed around 7, the meltback could have been due to the ph reducing effects of the ada + 0 kh in my tank

Edited by Bombshocked, 17 October 2014 - 09:14 AM.

[Bombshocked]

just for my curiosity can you explain  "the equivalent of a 2000L planted tank"

[werdna]

Aquaponics system.
 
No,  I never measured anything. I did inject air.
I kept edible plants.
No substrate, just inert hydroton clay as filter and growing media

[Riggers]

Your aquaponics was boss werdna

Edited by Riggers, 17 October 2014 - 06:25 PM.

[Bombshocked]

 

if you have any doubt in my skills and think im just some retard its no sweat off my back lol

[werdna]

No one is saying that.
All I am saying is that there are thousands of aquaponic systems running that, according to aquarium keeper rules, shouldn't be running!
And the whole comparing no water changes to sharing a bath is stupid.
Guess what princesses, sewerage water gets filtered, pumped into the ground, sucked up by water Corp and added to our drinking water.
It's a system that's been running on this planet for 4.5 billion years, so everytime you have a shower or take a drink, just think, some molecules in that water was once sewerage.

Your fish tank is doing the same thing, just on a smaller scale.

The main difference between aquaponics and a planted aquarium... You eat the fish and plants in one of them.

[Bombshocked]

rofl, you obviously dont ro then re alkaline your drinking water

[MattyB]

Werdna..... its proven science, fish NEED the minerals in the water let alone plants

[Fox]

People who think it's not important to do water changes.....
You keep thinking that. At least my fish will be happier living in their 50% weekly water change instead of living in their own filth.

[Leigh]

Werdna..... its proven science, fish NEED the minerals in the water let alone plants

I didn't read anywhere that anyone disputed this...

People who think it's not important to do water changes.....
You keep thinking that. At least my fish will be happier living in their 50% weekly water change instead of living in their own filth.

going back to the original post, if NO2 and NH3 are both zero and NO3 is only 10ppm and the system is clearly adequately filter- what filth are we talking about.
All may tanks also receive weekly 50% water changes but because my tanks are reasonably stocked with no method (eg. plants) to consume NO3's.

[MattyB]

sorry read wrong, I was tierd as when I wrote it lol

[Fox]

going back to the original post, if NO2 and NH3 are both zero and NO3 is only 10ppm and the system is clearly adequately filter- what filth are we talking about.
 

Well being that fish excrete in the water, They are swimming in their own filth, yes thats what the filter is for. but nothing like having a water change and your fish will show you that.
 

[werdna]

What minerals exactly do fish get from water changes?

Az- you need to add a filter to your tanks to remove fish waste. I was of the understanding that you would understand the nitrogen cycle, so would agree that their filth is being converted to nitrates in the filter system, which the plants are absorbing in this system.

So how are they happier in your tanks?
Your water changes are probably maintaining a 20ppm nitrate average, double what this system is maintaining naturally.

I have had fish grow from 5cm to 35cm in 6 months in my AP system, they died after 6 months due to being struck 3 times by a piece of pvc pipe on the head as it was easier to eat them than cool the water over summer. Up until that point they seemed quite happy to me.

Tilapia grow extremely well in the tropics in AP systems year round. So the whole releasing hormones to restrict growth by cichlids sounds BS to me.

And the studies performed showed a slightly higher percentage of runts. Not a complete tank full. So if the cause was hormones, why we're all fish not affected? Because the studies were biased BS IMO.


However, like I said, I am happy to be considered wrong here. I am only staying my experiences

[Frontosaman]

(Fact) Most of the top fish feeds contain the minerals needed.


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[Fox]

Not saying your wrong Andrew, but now tell me that I'm wrong.

Fish behave quite differently after a water change. Colors are better. Fish are more active.

[MattyB]

Werdna, so what your saying, the little write up I did, people doing 100 percent waterchanges daily for 2 years to get discus at 12 inches, you saying they got that big from complete luck and he wasted his time completely doing all the water changes? is that what your saying?

Edited by MattyB, 18 October 2014 - 09:41 PM.

[Frontosaman]

http://www.fao.org/d...00.htm#Contents


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Everybody have a read of this, then people can at least have a factual basis for there arguments.




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In my honest opinion. The issue is as a hobby we need to stop telling people that because they do something a certain way it's wrong. People do what they are capable of doing to the best of there knowledge and abilities and opinions. Telling people that they are wrong or cruel for choosing to care for there fish there own way can only negatively impact on peoples want to expand there hobbies.
It is trial and error


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[Fox]

It is trial and error

Never heard a truer statement!

[Michael the fish fanatic]

Here everyone watch this :
http://m.youtube.com...h?v=yqdrtVYBQDY

[Brett]

Water changes have been a hot topic for decades and there has been endless debate between those that do less and those that do more.

 

Firstly, there are a lot more things in water than we can see or measure as a hobbyist. Various nitrogenous waste products are just the tip of the iceberg.

Apart form the "salts and minerals" discussed above there are also hundreds of small dissolved organic compounds, most of these are waste compounds some are "hormones" that may have biological effects on fish/plants.

 

Hydroponic systems are far more effective at removing nitrogen and other compounds, as they are not limited by the amount of CO2 in the water. It is not really fair to compare a planted tank with a hydroponic set-up. That said you can get balance between plants/bacteria and fish that would require minimal or no water changes. However, the stocking levels are so low that most hobbyists would not be interested.

 

Cheers

Brett