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Cant Get Ammonia Down


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#1 nvrenuf

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Posted 16 January 2011 - 03:23 PM

Hi guys, in the last couple weeks i cant get the Ammonia down , It wasnt like this before

so basically ammonia is sitting at 0.5,
it was between 1 and 2, But i did a 90% water change and got it down to 0.5 where it has sat for a week now.

Ph is 8.2
nitrite is 0
nitrate i saw as 0 but lfs says it was 0.2

before the 90% change i did a 50% change week before.


Tank has been running 4 weeks now. 50 fish in there.
two canister filters

I have put a net of zeolite stones in to remove the ammonia as well which hasnt seem to do much

I think i was feeding them a fair bit knocked it right back to small finger full of spectrum in monrning and one at night

Fish all seem fine and not bothered , all happy swimming around etc.

What can i do.. need some help

thanks


tim


#2 Cawdor

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Posted 16 January 2011 - 03:39 PM

Your tank hasn't cycled yet - how big is it? By now you should have some nitrite readings as the bacteria start to convert ammonia. Nitrate should be zero for a while until you have enough bacteria to convert nitrite to nitrate. Be patient, a system can take 6-8 weeks to properly cycle. 50 fish is a lot for an uncycled tank - you just need to be vigilant in your water changes and do more frequent changes of 30-40 % every three days rather than a big 50%+ change once a week.

Keep feeding to a minimum so your fish don't produce that much waste. Once a day is enough.

#3 nvrenuf

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Posted 16 January 2011 - 03:41 PM

It just seems odd that that many fish, and 4 weeks have passed, and filters could not yet be cycled.

so keep doing water changes every 3 days.. damn

Sorry it's a 5 x 2.5 x 2

Eheim canister
and china canister

Edited by Cawdor, 16 January 2011 - 03:54 PM.


#4 Cawdor

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Posted 16 January 2011 - 03:54 PM

Like I said, you should have some nitrite readings by now...but because of the amount of fish, you will not see ammonia go to zero for a while until the bacteria colony is large enough to handle the amount.
Get a second test happening for nitrite, maybe your nitrite kit is faulty.

Once you get ammonia to zero, you can then adjust your water changes so nitrite is kept low. Once nitrite is zero, your tank is fully cycled and you can switch to weekly water changes to keep nitrates to about 20ppm (or orange colour on the API test kit).

#5 nvrenuf

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Posted 16 January 2011 - 03:57 PM

test kit is new,

will test again later. filters seemed quite dirty when i checked them.
just need more i guess.....

#6 Cawdor

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Posted 16 January 2011 - 04:06 PM

Still worth double checking - I've had faulty tests that were new as well smile.gif
What media is in the filters?

#7 nvrenuf

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Posted 16 January 2011 - 04:16 PM

In the eheim factory stuff

white noodle things, and blue mat filter, then pepples rock things and then on top more pebbles and white filter

china,

noodles and white filter media and some zerlite rocks.

#8 Hypanheaven

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Posted 16 January 2011 - 04:18 PM

theres no bactiera to convert the poo of the fish into nitrates, nitrates are the end of the cycle for fish poo (trying to make it easy) thats alot of fish for only 4 weeks running in a small tank. as cawdor said little water changes even 10% a day would be better than 50% and then a 90% water change would have almost reset the cycle so your back to square one almost. if the filters are fairly dirty then maybe your over feeding them, or maybe even a dead fish under a log/rock.

#9 nvrenuf

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Posted 16 January 2011 - 04:25 PM

a Suggestion from my lfs was it could be compound ammonia which filters dont break down but also isnt toxic.

I will do small water changes every few days i think for a while see how it goes.

all fish accounted for .. no deaths.

#10 Cawdor

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Posted 16 January 2011 - 04:26 PM

QUOTE (swimfishswim @ Jan 16 2011, 04:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
a 90% water change would have almost reset the cycle

That's actually incorrect. The bacteria colonies are mostly in the filter media, so as long as dechlorinator is used the amount of water that is changed has little effect on the colonies.
The only effect it would have is that the more water you change the more ammonia you remove, the less is there for bacteria to consume so you may temporarily decrease the size of those colonies. But you won't wipe them out smile.gif

#11 Hypanheaven

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Posted 16 January 2011 - 04:27 PM

but the filters obviously arnt established yet so he sort of was relying on the bacteria in the water, as little as there is there?

#12 nvrenuf

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Posted 16 January 2011 - 04:33 PM

Yeah lfs told me i shoul be fine to do 90% as it wont effect filters.

why cant it just be easy haha I just want it to be working 100%

is there anyway to speed it up
I thought having the fish in there would help it be a lot quicker


#13 Neddy

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Posted 16 January 2011 - 06:21 PM

I think a couple of fish is a good idea, not sure about 50 though?

#14 Tropo

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Posted 16 January 2011 - 06:30 PM

Hi mate

Bare in mind that amonia at a ph of 8.2 is much more toxic than at a ph below 7, Beware. Do you have any friends that have fish tanks as you can seed your filter with some of there media. I have done this plenty of times in the past and works fine every time. Another thing is do you have any other organic material in the tank wich could be causing the excess amonia and also check your tapwater as it is not uncommon in some areas to get a slight trace after we have had some rain..
Cheers Guy biggrin.gif

#15 nvrenuf

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Posted 16 January 2011 - 07:05 PM

possibly but by the time we get the media to my house would have killed the bacteria yeah ?

#16 Donna

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Posted 16 January 2011 - 07:27 PM

Have you had a go at reading this stuff?

http://www.perthcich...?showtopic=5387

It doesn't sound like your tank has cycled yet.

Try reading Anchar's post. There are other good links there too!

Regards,

Donna



#17 nvrenuf

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Posted 16 January 2011 - 08:20 PM

Thanks will have a look, Did another 20% water change tonight.

will do another one tuesday night.



#18 Ivan Sng

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Posted 16 January 2011 - 08:36 PM

Nvrenruf, it normally takes about 6-8 weeks to fully cycled an aquarium. And it would only be cycled to the bioload at that point in time, if more fishes are added after the aquarium is cycled, mini-cycles happen but are less likely noticed.

Not sure whether it was the lfs that informed you that 50 fishes are fine or that you decided you want 50 fishes yourself, but it is generally not advisable to cycle an new aquarium with that many fishes for reason you are finding out why now... Frequent water changes required to keep ammonia levels down. And take note that the nitrite spike is also bad... so don't go adding more fishes or feeding the fishes until both ammonia and nitrite readings are zero.

I believe that frequent water changes also slow down the cycling process... so by having more fishes, you are actually not speeding up the cycling by slowing it down because each water change to keep ammonia and nitrite levels down does interrupt the cycling to a certain degree...

Not sure what fishes you are having, but get some aquarium salt into the tank as it helps mitigate against nitrite poisoning, which is the next spike you will see...

And the most important thing when setting up a new tank... Patience... Nature takes time to do its magic...



#19 nvrenuf

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Posted 16 January 2011 - 08:52 PM

Putting that many fish in was my bad, and not being patient, mixed with a little bad advice from my lfs.

my lfs said he is supprised my filters are not cycled by now he said the eheim media is top quality and should be building up quite quickly.

but basically to late now, so whats done is done and i need to find a way to manage it until tank gets running, any help i can get i woudl very much appricate.

I have african cichlids, i also have the cichlid salts

#20 Ivan Sng

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Posted 16 January 2011 - 09:09 PM

Probably should take advise from that lfs carefully in future then... My thought are that the a quality filter helps filter the water better when it is established, but it does not speed up the rate at which bacteria grows...

Well I think someone already suggested it, see if someone near you have space capacity to keep your excess fish for a few weeks... Less fish, less water changes, your aquarium will cycle quicker... and then you can add them back once your tank is cycled.




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