37 replies to this topic

[Tricoti]

Hi everyone.
I thought I would make others aware of a problem I had with one of my Horizon aquarium lights and see if the same thing may have happened to anyone other than myself. If you have a Horizon aquarium light I would strongly suggest you take a close look at it in all the wiring areas.
See photo's attached.
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This is what I emailed to Octopus.

Hi Joe/Andrew, I have one 4ft and one 3ft Octopus Horizon Day/Night light solution units above my 8ft tank. (as shown in picture attached)
Purchased from xxxxxxxxxxxxxx. Order Date: Sunday 29 November, 2009. Order #xxxxxxxx
Today at 4.15pm Friday 11th February 2011 after the timers turn on the lights (same as they have everyday for the past year) they were on for about 2 minutes and then a big bang happened and all power in the house was off.
I quickly turned and looked at the fish tank because that's where the noise come from, it sounded like one of the tubes had exploded.
After removing the light plugs and turning the house power back on I looked more into it.
The attached pictures clearly show what caused the problem, the plastic around the red wire has melted and the exposed wire has touched the reflective metal.
I tried ringing at 4:30pm our time (VIC) but I received a recorded message asking me to email Joe or Andrew.
Could you please let me know ASAP what your company will do to rectify the problem with the unit.

Below is the email they sent me as an answer.

We appreciate your concern regarding this matter and unfortunately we are unable to warrant this light as it is out of warranty. (by 2 1/2 months!)
However, we are able to sell you a new unit at a heavily discounted price.
Currently the light units are out of stock but will be in stock sometime this week. Please advise at your earliest convenience if you wish to proceed.

I understand my warranty had expired but would you be happy with the above answer?
Is it a manufacturers fault?
Below is how their warranty is worded.

Leading Warranty Program Octopus products are warranted against defective materials and manufacturing faults of the body for 5 years plus 12 month warranty on moving parts.

Thanks for reading and BEWARE of Horizon light wiring.

Edited by Tricoti, 15 February 2011 - 11:19 PM.

[MrOrange]

Contact consumer affairs in your state. I'm confident you'll have a favourable outcome once they get involved.

[ado]

It is a manufacturing fault - and a dangerous one at that.
I don't know the brand, but I was be hesitant to get another one.

[lawdog]

The Warranty is 5 years as below, I would ring them direct and see what they suggest. It is a manufacturer fault on a non moving part. I would get stuck into them. There advice of 1 year on the product page is outweighed by their policy of warrenty.

Product Warranty Information
Our products are warranted against defective material and manufacturing faults for 5 years for non-moving parts and 12 months for moving parts from date of purchase (original owner - not transferable). Reef Octopus Australia agrees to repair or replace, without charge to the owner, parts proved to be defective within the warranty period. We assume no liability for breach of the warranty beyond the correcting breach in the manner described above. Our limited warranty will be void if the damage is cause by misuse, negligence, accident, alteration, modification and/or unauthorized repair. Our warranty does not cover transportation, handling or delivery charges incurred in the delivery of the product to and from our service center. For proof of purchase, original receipt from our retailers must be sent with the faulty products.

[Juls]

Technically speaking the only moving parts would be the switch, and the bulb mounts.

The damage is caused by the red wire moving and rubbing against the reflector.. so in that sense it's moving, but it isn't supposed to be moving.

Definatly not good enough, this could have caught fire, if they don't replace it under warranty it would be very interesting to see what there stance would be on paying for a new house once it burned down because of incorrect assembly of the light.

Juls

[Neakit]

Its not the body of the light nor was there defective materials, Your your warranty is over. This could happen to any light fitting not just octopus.

Edited by Neakit, 16 February 2011 - 05:41 PM.

[MrOrange]

Its not the body of the light nor was there defective materials, Your your warranty is over. This could happen to any light fitting not just octopus.

Keh?

I'll put money on it if you contact your state's consumer affairs and plead your case you'll get this replaced free of charge. Their own warranty terms indicate so, it's a no brainer!!

[lawdog]

The materials are defective if the cable is unable to sustain the current load and duty cycle. In this instance an extra dollars worth of higher rated cable would have meant that this instance did not occur,,,,,, built to a price rather than a quality point.

[Neakit]

it lasted outside the warranty and has there been a history of this fault occurring? Im sorry im not trying to put a downer on it but your really fighting an up hill battle.

[Salpon]

The Trade Practices Act implies the following warranties into any goods purchased:

a) product is of merchantable quality (that is, a basic level of quality given the price and description)
product is reasonably fit for purpose (purpose being obvious or described by consumer prior to purchase)
c) product must match description
d) product must be free from defects or faults

I doubt you will be entitled to any remedies unfortunately.

[Kieran]

Reef Octopus have had almost exactly the same website graphic for all their lighting since 2007. They have always had one year warranties that I know of. They have also always been cheap(ish) and hit-and-miss with some products in their range being awesome and some being duds.

I am sorry to read about your light unit. It is unfortunate that it only lasted a few months after the warranty period. Unfortunately the manufacturer was very clear that it only carried a 12 month warranty -- outside of that it could turn into a unicorn for all they know.

Unfortunately that's what we can expect from many products these days. Particularly new cars. I would suggest you put your money into a better quality brand of light unit.

[Juls]

If a products fault is proven to potentially cause a fire, then warranty doesnt come into it.

The manufacturer must repair or replace the product with a product that cannot fail in such a manner as to cause a fire. Warranty period is disregarded in that instance, as liability over rules it.

However if you have dismantled or modified the light in any way your out of luck.

Had your house not been fitted with a rcd and you where not home things could have been much worse.

You will need to look at your particular circumstance to decide what to do.

Juls

[Neakit]

since you cant rent or buy a place these days without a rcd fitted there is little chance of a fire............

[ado]

since you cant rent or buy a place these days without a rcd fitted there is little chance of a fire............

That's irrelevant. Anyway, there is still plenty of houses around without rcd protection.

Tricoti, I'd hit them with all you got mate. As an electrician I can tell you that not only is this a serious defect in the manufactoring of the light fitting, it could also have potentially caused a fatality.
It is a defective product, and by the sounds of it Energy Safety would be interested in hearing about this. And that could get nasty.

[fourdapostle]

Many speak of warranties as the end and thats it, not so.
I have been in retail for as I have said 35+years, and as has been stated a product must be of merchantisable quaility. As an example; if you spend $2000 on a tv and warrenty is 12 mths. On the 13 month it packs in, that is not merchantisable quaility at all, and the producer has to replace or repaird by the supplier, not the manufaturer. It sucks but its the supplier that bears the brunt of warrenties when they bring them in even if the company who produces it goes broke, the supplier is the one. You can have what you like in the small print, but its irrelevant, it has to be repaired or replaced. It all depends on how hard you push. Don't get abbusive, just be forceful..

[MrOrange]

Yep - it's called a statutory warranty if Neakit or Kieran want to look it up. Most manufacturers will not be forth coming in honouring this statutory warranty, which is why I suggested contacting fair trade/consumer affairs in your state to give them a bit of a reminder.

It's not always clear cut (the rules changed start of this year to try and make them clearer) as some factors do come into play (such as price), howver fair trade/consumer affairs will be able to advise you on this.

A quick phone call is all it takes, it's better to try than not, surely.

Edited by MrOrange, 18 February 2011 - 05:14 PM.

[Neakit]

Answer me this is there a recall on this product cause of electrical issues? The light unit has been working for at least 12 months faultless, What if the power heads or filters cause a vibration through the tank, that can cause things to chafe through. Come back to reality people its a cheap octopus light unit. They are a good unit and like all things there will be some lemons.

[MrOrange]

Thankfully you don't make the rules eh?

Say you bought a fish tank... the manufacturer gives a warranty of 1 year on the tank. After 18 months of normal use, the silicone gives way, you lose all your water and fish over your living room. When you bought that tank, you reasonably expected it to last many many many years trouble free, despite what the manufacturer claimed was the warranty period. Would you be happy to accept that 12 month warranty as final, or would you want it replaced because it failed well before what is reasonably expected? This is why we have consumer protection laws, you ARE covered, you ARE entitled to a replacement. A reasonable person would expect a $200+ light unit to last longer than 12 months, if it doesn't, then it's not fit for purpose. That's all there is to it.

Edited by MrOrange, 18 February 2011 - 06:29 PM.

[Kieran]

Yep - it's called a statutory warranty if Neakit or Kieran want to look it up.
---
[Contact] fair trade/consumer affairs in your state to give them a bit of a reminder.

I just looked it up for a refresher as per your suggestion. (Thank you for that as I discovered the changes since Jan 1 2011).

The stat warranty does require the goods to be "of merchantable quality - they must meet a basic level of quality and performance, taking into account their price and description."[2] Taking into account their price. This is a cheap light unit, you get what you pay for. I would not expect it to last longer than 12 months.

Furthermore, the statutory warranty is between the consumer and the seller/trader. This was an online purchase -- for all we know the seller is living in Uzbekistan, meaning that forcing them to do the right thing may be difficult. "As you have a contract of sale with the trader, the trader has a responsibility to help you. In turn, the trader has a right under the Trade Practices Act to seek compensation from the manufacturer."[2] The goods must be freighted back to the seller for the seller to process any warranty claim, statutory or otherwise, with the manufacturer. Calling and emailing the manufacturer is not the way to progress your claim. The local consumer protection agency can't do a thing if the seller isn't local, and the ACCC cannot fight this battle for you -- you must litigate yourself.

My (pretty harsh I'll admit) $0.02: Fact of the matter is, this gentleman bought an 'el-cheapo' electrical product for use around a large volume of water in a residential environment, and in doing so risked the lives of everyone in his house. Just think what might have happened if there was no RCD to protect them. It's all well and good to say that every product must not fail in such a way as to cause a fire, but we all know these cheap products are cheap for a reason, and they're usually on the market for some time before anyone realises they could be dangerous. What if the fire occurs before the manufacturer recalls the product? Sure you will be compensated, but no amount of warranty claiming and litigation is going to bring people back from the dead, or reverse disability from injury, etc. You buy cheap, and you increase the risk of receiving sub-standard goods; I refuse to buy anything other than good quality, reputable products -- particularly around my aquariums!

Call the seller if you feel you have a case. If they do not cooperate, call your solicitor. Just be careful, whingeing on public forums about a specific manufacturer is tantamount to slander.

Good luck!
Kieran

[1,2.] ACCC. "Goods and serviced bought before January 1 2011." Australian Competition & Consumer Commission Home. http://www.accc.gov....l/itemId/815360 (accessed 02 18, 2011).

[MrOrange]

Good post Kieran - yep they did change, to make it a little less ambiguous thankfully.

Are these lights really that cheap? I did a search and they seemed to be $250+ lights for the 4ft'r. $250 is $250.

Also, it would be illegal to sell them if they do not meet electrical standards.