Den

I started a conversation on sharks here some years ago when attacks were quite rare because I noticed that white pointers were being spotted around in metro areas where they were never seen before and to me that was a sign their population was exploding, and when I warned people that attacks would become a regular occurrence in Australia I got laughed at here, and since that time we have seen big jump in attacks. There has been a complete lie about endangered sharks, their numbers are at record levels, there are tigers being caught around Perth off the beach, when I was a kid you never seen or heard of tigers or whites around Perth. 

Some people put up stats and want thousands of people to die before taking any pre-emptive action, but if nothing is done about their numbers there can only be 2 outcomes, people will either stop using the water or attacks will keep rising, that is the trend. Personally I dont use the water any more like I used to, because I know the risk is higher than what people think, and comparing terrestrial risks to risks in the water is plain silly, since 99.99999999% of peoples combined total time is spent on land.

I watched Trumps first stump speech and I predicted that day he would win, so I put bets on him all of last year, I had over 20 bets on him, and Trump made my bank account great again!

I had a few dollars riding on him so I watched every single rally stump speech to make sure he stayed on his platform as I believed as long as he stuck to it he would win. I never heard him say a racist word and his behaviour was anything but racist, and one of the rare times I seen him get emotional was when he spoke about the murder of a young black man who was shot execution style for no reason by an illegal alien.  

Interesting that Hillary and the Democrats are pro war against Assad, also interesting that Saudis want Assad out, also interesting that Saudis funded most of Hillary's campaign and her "Clinton foundation" and also funding Democrats with big dollars. Also Turkey want Assad out, also connected to white helmets and previous fake false flag gas attacks, I wonder if there could be a connection?? hmmmm.

In the 1980s and 1990s, we were always warned about peak oil, and told when oil starts to dry up early this century the world would go to war over its diminishing availability, interestingly its turned out the exact opposite, there is now an oil over supply and Countries competing to sell oil are going to war with each other, for example, Saddam invaded Kuwait because they were undercutting his oil price and stealing his customers, Saudis are doing all sorts of things to get rid of competition, which is why I think they hate Assad because he's aligned with Iran another big oil producer, now oil producing Countries are going to war over oil like drug gangs trying to protect their turf, oil money is actually funding most of the war we are watching in the ME, so it appears as oil starts to dry up so will the wars over it, what an irony.

Also Democrats blaming Russia for hacking and giving leaks to Wikileaks is just the Democrats attempt to cover up the massive corruption exposed in their DNC. The DNC hierarchy was exposed as fully corrupt and working for Hillary, and people inside the DNC that were either pro Bernie or just pro honesty and decency would likely have been the people who leaked all the DNC corruption to Wikileaks - not the Russians, now the Democrats are blaming Russia for it, when it was their own people who probably did it, just my opinion, but when you realise that the DNC had loads of Bernie people working in it, and they would have seen the pro Hillary corruption first hand, well of course theres a good chance they would leak it out, and one DNC guy got assassinated who's thought to be the main leaker, thats the rumour going around anyway.

Thinking the earth was flat while watching the rounded sun go over the horizon might be considered common sense and logical to you, but I would have to disagree. Common sense and logic was on the side proposing the earth was not flat, and it was probably people like you who argued against them, because again your on the wrong side of the argument.

If I can get a water supply loaded with the virus, will you be willing to drink it, bathe in it, and use it in your aquariums for the next 30 years?

Im not sure why there is an argument about the carp population developing immunity, its already proven to happen overseas and expected to happen here.

 

Mr Warrick was sceptical the project would see the 95 per cent success rate as touted by the Federal Government.

 

He said the species' numbers in Israel had rebounded since the virus was released.

 

The carp that survived the virus in Israel became immune to it.

quotes from article:

http://www.abc.net.a...roblems/7374658

The thing that should scare people the most is that as water temps fluctuate your going to get carp breeding in mass numbers with seasonal mass die offs every year or so, some scientists have already been talking about this, this is not only going to be an ongoing expense, you also have to calculate how that decaying pollution is going to effect native fish and other animals species and people too.

This isn’t a stab at you den, wheeled and dealed with you in the past and think you’re a good bloke, you have just summed up all the against arguments.

 

1. Mature individuals yes but their offspring will continue to be hit on the head. It won’t remove them but will lower numbers enough to make a difference.

 

2. 100% agree with you there but the high number of carp will make it impossible for any remediation to be effective.

 

3/4. The virus has persisted globally for around 30 years, replicated trillions upon trillions of times yet has not mutated enough to affect any other species of animal around the globe, even its closest relatives like the goldfish.  Isn’t that proof/study enough it won’t jump species, to salt water or order?

CyHV-3 also becomes dormant at 28 °C and completely shuts down at 30 °C. The human body temp it 37 °C so its proteins would likely disassociate at that temp. For it to survive within a warm blooded animal it would need a completely new set of genes and a whole new structure which is not possible by mutation alone. In the 30 years or so it has persisted people have still eaten carp carrying the virus and it still hasn’t become zoonotic.

 

3. Swine and bird flu are a completely different kettle of fish. Influenza is RNA based and there are tons of strains because of its ability to reassort its self and with other strains. They are essentially all the same thing influenza A, with different  cell surface antigens / proteins on the surface - hemagglutinin and neuraminidase. There 18 types of hemagglutinin and 11 neuraminidase giving you close to 200 combinations then each one of these combinations can have a variety of strains with different pathogenic profiles which all have the ability to chop and change with each other.

 

5. Cancer is a bunch of cells that have had their genes that regulate replication screwed with. Viruses have to be extremely specific to do this, in short they need the right genes and sequences to insert the right bit of code in the right place, CyHV-3 doesn’t have any of these and it can’t persist in the human body. 

 

No offense James, Im not sure if you are disagreeing with me? because what you wrote supports most of my points;

1. What you said basically affirms what I said, it wont eradicate them, your making a guess that the numbers will remain impacted over time, but some scientists are arguing that you will remove the young carp which have become an important food source for some natives and by just leaving adult carp you could make the problem even worse for native fish. So even if you lower carp numbers this way you could decimate whats left of some native species, not just my opinion, there are scientists out there saying the same thing.

2. No point removing carp if your still going to allow chemicals and livestock destroy the waterways, natives cant recover in damaged waterways with or without carp present.

3. With your credentials I dont have to tell you that 30 years is a tiny window for an evolution study, and how many people are seriously looking at it? and look at those temp ranges, you will be looking at a stinking, rotting, polluted river nightmare every year or so, as numbers build up, with massive die offs as seasonal temps fluctuate, that could be super expensive to clean up every year and also completely ruin the rivers for people and all the native fish, its not just me thinking this, I have heard chatter about this by concerned scientists in the media.

4. There is a heap of herpes viruses being found lately, I just heard 2 new reports lately, one about sea turtles with a herpes strain, I dont want another herpes strain released here in our water thanks.

Cheers
Den

Went to the koi show last weekend, what a fantastic event and great bunch of people! had a great day and picked up some really nice little koi at a bargain price.

Here is a video of the show and the champion fish on display, interviews with the club President, Champion koi keepers and breeders and they also discuss the release of KHV, hope you enjoy.

Cheers

Den

Den,

The article should be placed in context though. The context being that there is some risk to farmed koi.
Yep no doubt there is some risk... dont know how much and I'm not about to provide some arbitrary figure to make my point.
I think the majority of arguments for the relase of the virus is environmental benefit.
80% of the murray river biomass is carp. Environmentally, does that not scare the shit out of you? Is controlling this problem a political stunt in your opinion or does it perhaps seem like the right thing to do?
I, for the life of me, cannot understand how the financial impact to a few hobbyists can even be credibly uttered in argument against the main reason for introducing the virus.
Another point on this being a "political stunt:" Remind me again how years of CSIRO research and subsequently the recommendation of releasing this virus is politically motivated. The politician might be motivated by headlines but the scientist isnt. Scientists arent about newspapers, they are about peer review, prestige and getting things right... A political stunt doesnt add up.

The reasons I am against it are simple, they admit it themselves it wont work. They are not addressing the true causes of the carp population issue, there are many articles on the history on this problem which explain that carp populations exploded in areas were the environment had been changed and/or damaged by human interference - the natives disappeared (or weren't there in the first place i.e man made irrigation canals) and then the carp move into the free space as they are more tolerant of poorer water quality.

I don't mean to disrespect scientists but they are working for a paycheck like anyone else, if you pay a scientist to prove global warming exists, they will find you evidence it exists, if you pay a scientist to prove global warming doesn't exist, they will find you evidence it doesn't exist, they will work to fill as best they can the objectives of their paymaster and there is a lot of dodgy science out there because of this, anyway read what their scientists say themselves, its a plan that's not guaranteed to work, in fact they go further and admit it wont eradicate them.

Here's a blog from Dr Loh fish vet;

https://thefishvet.c...as-khv-release/

You can joke about this all you want but this virus is known to spread like a wild fire once its out there, read the vector listed Dr Loh :Vectors (e.g. birds, amphibian, introduction of other fish species), equipment, water, personnel, fish (carriers, and diseased). If you have a pond full of expensive koi you wont be laughing when they get wiped out.

Someone mentioned carp farming / Charlie carp. I read articles where these guys favor the release of the virus, they seem to think all the fish are going to magically float to the surface after they die, these guys and the people working on the clean up better get used to the idea of the majority of the fish could sink to the bottom or get caught up in wooden snags, from what I can see the places where it was tested was in lakes with no trees around, so dead fish could be easily collected, this wont be the case in our rivers which are mostly snag riddled waters full of branches. Also many wont start floating until they start to decay, at which point charlie carp cannot use them, they said they need them within 48 hours AD. Anyway who fancies spraying their gardens with fish infected by virus? and swimming, fishing, skiing, boating, drinking, who wants to use these waterways once its full of this virus? its perfectly safe "probably", hey call me ignorant, I don't care, the idea of it just doesn't turn me on.

According to various media articles circulating, the virus can be spread by fish merely brushing past each other, and the virus can survive suspended in the water for several days without a host waiting to infect, so you are looking at your entire waterways filled with a fish herpes virus permanently! sounds so attractive, and what could possibly go wrong?

My problems with this proposed solution;

1. Firstly they admit it wont even work! they already know the fish will become resistant and their own studies show it wont eradicate them.

2. Various studies have shown(example link below) the disappearance of natives and the explosion of carp population is mainly due to human habit destruction, damns, water diversion, clearing, farming, mining, agriculture are the main causes of the problem, so they are not tackling the core of the problem.

3. Viruses can mutate - what long term studies can prove it wont mutate in 10 to 50 years to attack other fish or other animals, birds, people? When it reaches its peak saturation and you have virus rich waters, and reduced number of carp hosts, can a mutation jump to new hosts? Did you ever hear of swine flu or bird flu? viruses jumping hosts is not a new thing, maybe our government is jealous of these other countries having dangerous viruses skipping from animals to people, I guess a new fish flu epidemic could put us Aussies on the map!

4. Viruses can lay dormant without effecting a host and activate at any time to cause problems in the future - what study can guarantee its safety with humans and other species over long term?

5. Various viruses have been linked to cancers, this is still a fairly new discovery to science so we should not be messing with viruses while we still know bugger all about them.

There is no possible way they can have a study that guarantee's its safety 100%, I think there will be a strong movement against this virus release once people understand the risks and the fact its a plan that seems set for failure.

http://www.pestsmart...s_of_Carpv1.pdf

So that knuckle dragging meathead Barney rubble joyce has decided to release a herpes virus "found in Israel" into our waterways in an attempt to eliminate feral carp, no one knows if its going to work, its already been proven that it wont work overseas. Once the virus is out there we are stuck with it for good, millions of tonnes of virus infected and diseased fish rotting in our water ways, what could possibly go wrong? I'm sure it will be a huge success like other Government programs such as introduction of gambusia and the cane toad.

Ive been told by a vet that this virus can be spread by water birds, so its likely to spread to our ponds and tanks eventually, so watch your prized koi and goldfish, they could end up wiped out, and if you consider mutations over the long term this could be a potential catastrophic disaster.

I'm so pissed off about this, I wish we could stop this from happening, the Government is such a disaster when it comes to our aquatic environments, they fail to tackle the true causes of water habitat destruction which is farming and mining and they always go for easy targets instead, dammit Im jumping in my skin with anger, how can this one completely stupid moron make such an important decision for our Country!

Will swap for peacock bass fry.

Hi

I have for sale rack as detailed below, great for raising fry, I was breeding catfish and raising fry in them:

Top tank Dimensions (930mm length / 300mm width / 435mm height)

Center and bottom tank Dimensions (930mm length / 300mm width / 380mm height)

Glass Thickness: 6mm

Condition: (Tanks - Good = some minor blemishes (one tank has patch in top corner for small crack, has been like that for 3 years with no worries / Rack Excellent = as new)

Age: Top tank and Rack approx 2 years, other 2 tanks not sure maybe 5 years)

Stand (metal painted with gloss black kill rust epoxy paint)

Total height of rack to top of tank 185cm

Lids: tanks come with delux(2 piece) type lids.

Price or ballpark figure: $300

Shipping available? no, pickup from Warnbro WA

Please PM me if interested.

Photos: below