82 replies to this topic

[Fox]

I have been given some terrible news over the last few days and have also seen the fish that were mentioned.

I have been told a large breeder and seller in Perth has been crossing species of peacocks and also mixing juvies and selling as one species.
This sort of behaviour was what screwed the Aulonocara species many years ago, it started to become good over the last few years.
But now with this happening it certainly will destroy the Aulonocara gene pool once again.

I know this person sells locally, if they sell interstate you can pretty much kiss the non import Peacocks goodbye.
Now I WONT tell anyone the persons name, but be VERY aware of what your buying!

If your going to be a breeder, please, please! Be very careful of what your putting in your tanks and what your mixing with what. The hobby is just that, a Hobby! You won't make bulk cash from it but you certainly will enjoy it.

[Karlos]

Hey Az just wanted to post a pic of the fish I brought as a Benga after a bit of research have now realised I have brought a cross bred Peacock. Let me know what you guys think as I am very disappointed as I have already bred this fish but lucky enough to not have sold them. Here is a Pic

Attached Files

•  image.jpg   107.08KB   8 downloads

[Mattymak]

It's nice but doesn't look like a pure benga to me

[malawiman85]

Even if you want a shot at making some cash, knock your self out but as Az said this kind of behaviour almost totally f*#ked keeping peacocks in the past. Where I disagree with Az is I dont think its gotten any better... Still see an unbelievable number of mutant looking peacocks being traded.

The hobby has some big challenges in front of it over the next couple of years. All hobbyists must take responsibility for the health of the hobby by keeping species pure. If we dont we just will not have the variety of species available to us down the track.
Sorry Karlos, thats not what they are supposed to look like.

[Fox]

Thanks Karl.
Pure Bengas should have half blue faces.

The Aulonocara maylandi are terrible in Oz, a few years ago there were some absolute stunners getting about. But the crap that is getting around now thanks to the big gun suppliers aren't true
If your into peacocks and want to breed them, get the German import quality from your LFS.

I'm really REALLY disappointed that someone would even consider selling these
I'm guessing so many ppl have wasted coin buying these fish.

[Karlos]

Yeah it's nice but it's still a crossbreed and how many other people are buying these and breeding them and selling them on. I was lucky enough to have known some good people that pointed out the the cross bred fish thanks Az and Paul from Morley had warned me about this with Bengas.
What do I do with these fish now? I sound like a greeny but I have grown attached to them and couldn't let them be feeders.

[Mattymak]

Karlos nothing wrong with raising them for a mixed peacock male display or something I guess?

[Westie]

Bumped in to a fellow PCS member yesterday at one of the sponsor shops, and he showed me a pic of the peacocks he has got.
I've never seen anything so colourful as them

Darn shame that someone is doing what you have said Az. Very unethical if it's true

[rsevs3]

A very nub question here, but is this something to keep in mind with all cichlids?

 

In a few months I am hoping to start breeding something easy to keep and breed to learn. I was thinking electrics or something?

[bigjohnnofish]

round up ya hybrids and i'll dispose of them for you

[Mattymak]

Meaning what rsevs? a lot of cichlids will cross breed if that's what you mean.

[Bombshocked]

lol if you want quick cash, better get a job this isnt a money making game,

if you keep fish tanks you will quickly be racking up the 1000$ of dollars spent to buy/maintain/stock your tank/tanks

 

breeding fish for me is about watching the parental nature of dwarf cichlids and i also like the general increased need for me to be playing with my tanks (increased water changes and feeding) watching the fish grow and colour up is the best reward

 

if your breeding fish, dont just go to the LFS and get 2 fish from the same batch because there more then likely related ask the owner buy your fish from REPUTABLE dealers..... Research your fish species then source the best quality breeding stock, sometimes it might be a year or 2 before you find a nice specimen but if you really want to help the hobby evolve, dont breed/sell hybrids or subquality/deformed fish to others get a big fish and use them as feeders or whatever.....

 

IF you want to start breeding fish you have to be prepared to cull(KILL) deformed/sub quality fish AND have the tank space to seperate the breeding pairs if it is nessecary due to lack of demand on the market or lack of tank space for raising fry.

 

just my 2 cents lol

[rsevs3]

That was what I meant Matty. Should have been more clear

 

Bombshocked, making money is certainly not the aim of the game for me. Covering some costs would be awesome though. I am no stranger to the costs of aquariums! I would like to get some experience under my belt to try and breed some high quality fish. As you mentioned, just finding good quality stock can be a challenge. To get the ball rolling though, you have to start somewhere

[Buccal]

I tend to disagree with what almost all is said here,,,, ooohhhh... Except for the alounocara impurity.
Fish at 3-4cm are hard to determine at this size when considering locational differences so it makes it hard for shops and breeders other than trust.
The quote "I love fish keeping and I'm doing this for ever, I'm so into it". Lol,,,, people who breed fish are likely to lose interest in 2-5 years when life changes,,,, one out of thirty may have the life long passion.

This talk of big breeders or for profit,,,, lol,,,,, when the quality of fish drops and things look bad, it's every time the big medium to big breeders close down,,,, and shops and public relies on the backyardies with a few tanks.
It's the fish keepers looking for bargains on fish and everything they buy with limited experience are the ones that put the purity at risk.

Big breeders in general are huge libraries that keeps all the species locked away that revitalizes a large range of species back to the hobby when they run low.
These bigger people are in it for the long run,,, unlike the every time cycle of people getting in and out of it.

Unfortunately alounocara has always faced this problem because of there intense diversity and similarities.
I myself have never bought alounocara from shops (besides drgn blood, mble pcks) or private sales because of this,,,,, although I've seen some great alounocara with being certain of purity at shops.
I've bought one alounocara to the table through a importer alounocara (hongi).

The alounocara are legal imports with usually over 30 varieties on the list to choose from.
Rather than talk about it,,,,,, open up your wallets and buy some pures and contribute to the hobby.

[Tarpon]

Rather than talk about it,,,,,, open up your wallets and buy some pures and contribute to the hobby.

 

What's the point? So someone buys imported expensive Aulonocara, then breeds them. What do they do with the fry? 

As you point out  "so it makes it hard for shops and breeders other than trust" so who buys them at an inflated price

This is the problem of buying/breeding for profit

[Karlos]

So if you are disagreeing with most of what was said ?So which part do you agree with the selling of hybrids or the fact that a breeder has probably sold thousand of crossbreed peacocks through out Perth?

Edited by Karlos, 15 September 2014 - 09:56 AM.

[Holmzy]

round up ya hybrids and i'll dispose of them for you

Guess the red tail is getting hungry

[Buccal]

What's the point? So someone buys imported expensive Aulonocara, then breeds them. What do they do with the fry? 
As you point out  "so it makes it hard for shops and breeders other than trust" so who buys them at an inflated price
This is the problem of buying/breeding for profit

That's just the thing,,, you can't sell them at a inflated price,,,, the fish here in Perth isn't appreciated.
This is fact,, not my little belief for others to detest..
Shops here and east will only buy what will sell from breeders,,, and shops are very good at knowing what to buy.
The heavy population with much more fisho's over east always supports a better market.
People here very quickly take offense when discussing the market differences of east and west.
If one wants to buy of a German list at $30 each for a 3.5cm fish then breed and sell them at $3 each that's fine,,, it's a free hobby.
But I can with no probs at all bag them up and sell for $8-$10 each over east where they will sell for $25-$30 each in shops.

Buying of German lists is the only way to freshen the bloodlines,,,,, it's always inevatable that quality will decline because not everyone wants them,,,, and they also have to survive the cycle of when really no-one wants them for ages.
As I said,,, it's their actual diversity that's the problem,,, if there were only two varieties available it would be much easier to keep pure.
1. There would be less types to get mixed up.
2. If there was roughly 20 people willing to keep breed alounocara, about ten people would breed one type and the other ten people would breed the other type,,,(roughly explaining),,,,,

If there are 30 varieties like there is today.
1. There's truckloads of types to get mixed up.
2. These 20 people,,,, each person has a different locational varient,,,, so unlike above^^^^ not one species existence is secure as it would be if multiple people kept one specie.

I see far to often on this forum black and white views without much understanding of the subject itself.
In this hobby it's inevitable that some defects and hybrids are going to show.
Someone like Azz is merely pointing out the issue to let you guys know and be aware,,,, and his own desire to see this hobby in good shape.,,,,,,, then it turns into a irrational slinging match of inaccurate talk by others.
When there's a weakness in the hobby,,, these are the things that begin to occur.
Out of the many fish I've bred in the past, I also have fell victim to buying hybrids thinking they were pure at a small size.
They then bred at a small size and unfortunately I had let a small amount go out before I twigged.
The person I got these from I won't mention,,, but it wasn't from the two major long standing shops.

Of coarse someone holding a big library (doing the hobby a great service not letting species disappear from oz), is not going to be able to zone in on his subjects as much as one person with one tank and one species,,,,, but everyone is doing their best.
After all,, as said,, you don't make much or hardly any money,,, so the breeder still has to do his day job.

You look back on pcs to the year 2000,,, there abouts,,, the clans of common people on here going for a few years then dropping of with a whole new wave of people,,,,,,, see, realistically there are very few with a life long strong passion.
This hobby goes up and down in waves.

If it was to stay strong, like over seas,, then there is a abundance of good gear.

[Buccal]

So if you are disagreeing with most of what was said ?So which part do you agree with the selling of hybrids or the fact that a breeder has probably sold thousand of crossbreed peacocks through out Perth?

Classic.
Mate,,, I said in my first sentence I disagree with all except the problem with impurity.
If its anyone who's picky on quality, it would be me.
I just turf that fish on the ground and sqwish it with the ball of my foot like I would a cigarette. (I wouldn't even feel bad,,, weeellll,, maybe a little bit lol)......

[MrLeifBeaver]

IF you want to start breeding fish you have to be prepared to cull(KILL) deformed/sub quality fish

 

Even though I do think every fish needs to be given a chance, I have been noticing with the Discus at some LFS all the excellent quality ones are all snapped up and then the shops are left with all these oblong shaped non-rounded Discus, mis-coloured ones and others with interesting traits.

 

I think some of these overseas breeders need to slow down a bit with the breeding and the feeding. Yes, having a hatch rate of 400 fry and then managing to keep 90% might be great for the hip-pocket, but sometimes I think mother-nature needs to do her thing and weed out the weak ones. If a deformed one manages to grow to full size great, but don't sell it and don't breed it.