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Wa Fisheries On A Rampage To Rid Wa Of Shrimp


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113 replies to this topic

#21 tywonreef

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 09:32 PM

QUOTE (matthewanson @ Apr 22 2013, 09:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Paul I disagree with you in regards to avoiding conflict. If push came to shove and a case went to court regarding grey listed fish and for some reason it was ruled that they are noxious, that would make the majority of ornamental fish that we keep in Australia and effectively cause the industry to crumble (which would not be allowed to happen.) I'd sooner see the spotlight shone on the topic now to speed up the arrival of a revolution.

In regards to the shrimp, I wonder what set them off? Surely someone didn't just wake up on the wrong side of the bed and think "I'm gunna go steal me some shrimp."


Not so sure. If they decided to legislate so that all non allowable imports were to be declared noxious the industry would not crumble. The pet shops, importers & chain stores would just continue on their merry way selling goldfish & livebearers etc. it is us, the specialist aquarium store that will suffer & we are not a strong power. If you doubt that they can do this sort if thing just look to the fishing industry & the huge changes made recently in respect to marine parks & recreational/commercial fishing bans. All this has been done despite the might of the rec fishing bodies combining to lobby against it.
We can't look to support from other groups either, they will probably be more against the cruelty of smuggling practices & perceived cruelty of keeping fish confined to tanks than in support Of us. Even the green element could be turned against us due to the threat from wild catching of stocks in 3rd world countries. I would not like to test them in court at all as a backfire would suck big time.

#22 al4n

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 10:14 PM

QUOTE (Sergio @ Apr 21 2013, 08:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Damn, i wish i had this information when they rocked up at my door!
I'm now shrimpless... sad.gif

The whole process was very full on and unnecessary.
No fines are being given out, but they are taking away all shrimp.


Sorry to hear Sergio,

May i ask how this came about?

#23 Juls

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 10:25 PM

My understanding is that the visits are from gumtree ads, fisheries probably falsely contact you asking to come buy shrimp to get your address ect.

They are achieving nothing with this approach, there is easily 500 000 000 ++ exotic shrimp in Australia, 99.999% bred here in Australia. They cannot get them all, nor will they, huge waste of resources and time.

The time and money would be more wisely spent eradicating gambusia, rainbow/brown trout, Redfin perch, and other fish introduced by government agency's that have caused and continue to cause irreparable damage. Of course fisheries don't actually care about ornamental species nor have any interest, they are happy to dump thousands of trout juveniles in our rivers knowing full well they will compete and eat our beautiful Pygmy perch and endangered/near threatend galaxias/galaxiella and pygmy perch species.

In terms of glass shrimp, when I spoke to them they told me as long as I have a freshwater fishing licence and follow the rules associated with it that's fine.

Which means that to catch glass shrimp you must use a line and hook, or a short handled landing net (less than 2ft long handle) all other methods are illegal. (And you must have a licence.)

I was told twice that ornamental species where up to dec, Dec told me twice that if its in the water its fisheries.

I suppose we can only wait to see how this unfolds.

Juls

Edited by Juls, 22 April 2013 - 11:17 PM.


#24 tywonreef

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 10:49 PM

QUOTE (Juls @ Apr 23 2013, 01:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
My understanding is that the visits are from gumtree ads, fisheries probably falsely contact you asking to come buy shrimp to get your address ect.

They are achieving nothing with this approach, there is easily 500 000 000 ++ exotic shrimp in Australia, 99.999% bred here in Australia. They cannot get them all, nor will they, huge waste of resources and time.

The time and money would be more wisely spent eradicating gambusia, rainbow/brown trout, Redfin perch, and other fish introduced by government agency's that have caused and continue to cause irreparable damage.

In terms of glass shrimp, when I spoke to them they told me as long as I have a freshwater fishing licence and follow the rules associated with it that's fine.

Which means that to catch glass shrimp you must use a line and hook, or a short handled landing net (less than 2ft long handle) all other methods are illegal. (And you must have a licence.)

I was told twice that ornamental species where up to dec, Dec told me twice that if its in the water its fisheries.

I suppose we can only wait to see how this unfolds.

Juls


Well said. Interestingly i had 2 requests for cherrys today, one phone, one visit. Thankfully i am out of stock for the first time in ages.
The collecting laws are as clear as mud. But in all cases catching is only for personal use & cannot be offered for sale. I have checked & they have never supplied an exemption for commercial supply.
Best to just let them get it out if their system.

I did hear rumour several months ago that they planned a crackdown on shrimp so there was some warning. Again, technically it is really not illegal unless declared noxious.


#25 tywonreef

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 11:39 PM

Just to provide a totally different perspective.

Possibly the raids on private sellers indicates that the point may be to find the smugglers themselves, not just looking for breeders. If this is their excuse it would be hard to argue against. There are precedents for infections to commercial stocks from shrimp in the past. Before you shout salt water, think barramundi. There are idiots out there that may release these as they could not sell them, it's happened before.
Again i suggest choose your battles wisely.
They may be acting somewhat illegally, but possibly not immorally.
Remove some emotion & think carefully about the arguments from both sides.

#26 Mr_docfish

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 10:30 AM

A bit of extra info:

if you wanted to collect glass shrimps - and you have an inland freshwater fishing licence, your bag limit is 10 (under Schedule 3 of the Regulations - Bag limits - Other Crustacean species not specified above)


Under Section 103A of the Regulations, part (3), the CEO of Fisheries may direct an officer to intervene in relation to that fish if, in the circumstances, intervention will or could minimise the risk of the accidental introduction of exotic fish into WA waters.

I would like to know the circumstances in which these shrimp were at risk of being accidentally introduced...... as this will go for any fish that we trade in....

if the shrimp were in a pond in an area prone to flooding, then yes, I see the risk - but in a small aquarium inside a house or a small bag of less than 1 litre of water in a car in transit - I cannot see the risk - I would like to know the CEO's "Perceived Risk" and what he was on when he had that dream.....

Edited by Mr_docfish, 23 April 2013 - 09:24 PM.


#27 ronaldskitz

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 11:25 AM

What a croc. Is this happening to all shrimp species or just red cherrys

Edited by ronaldskitz, 23 April 2013 - 12:06 PM.


#28 tywonreef

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 12:01 PM

sadly fisheries are not always rational, as ollie mentioned, someone probably had a nightmare that they were being devoured by a giant prawn, or maybe they just look too much like spiders & there is an arachnophobe working there.

#29 Kleinz

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 12:57 PM

There is always the bureaucratic angle that can be counted on...I rather strongly suspect that someone needs to spend/justify a departmental budget allocation before end of financial year.

#30 Den

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 01:05 PM

My biggest concern is that I have repeatedly heard that the fisheries department have impunity and cannot be prosecuted if they make a mistake. If this is true then what we are dealing with here is a Government department operating under a tyranny.

Im no law expert, but I would argue that the laws that govern them are unconstitutional. Impunity of a Government department goes against the principals of any democracy in the free world, no Government department can be above the law, and if we have such a department operating under tyranny then we must expose and fight it because such a regime opens up the potential of corruption, incompetance and abuse against us citizens.

We have soldiers fighting and dying in other Countries to create democratic Governments that operate in a framework of just laws that provide citizens with equal protection and rights against Govenment Tyranny and here we seem to have a Government department that seems exempt from that?!

Although I do not keep shrimp, I completely empathise with the people who have had their animals confiscated and destroyed, which of our hobbies are next? central American fish keepers? malawi keepers? Tang keepers? we tax payers are paying these fisheries people, and they want to keep busy and justify their wages, so they will keep looking for ways to keep busy, and if they have the power to take advantage over people it seems they can, if they get away with this, they will probably keep going, how will we stop them?

We must as a group reject this, every freedom loving Aussie should be angry about this.


Edited by Den, 23 April 2013 - 02:02 PM.


#31 Androo

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 03:04 PM

This may sound stupid but is it worth someone making it public via media like today tonight or some other show? Even if it dosnt stop them atleast the hundreds of people who have shrimp and don't know what's coming know what their legal rights are.

#32 Anka

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 03:37 PM

This sort of story isn't newsworthy because it only effects a vary small sample of the news agencies' market.

I'll put it forward to the committee whether we as a society do anything about it (e.g. write a letter).

#33 Androo

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 04:24 PM

Find a pensioner that has shrimp and they will care

#34 Jules

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 04:30 PM

Man, stuff fisheries.
Cant keep big cool fish and now apparently prawn wanna be shrimps.
Pathetic!

Tell me in short? Do they think that CS are going to destroy our ecosystems if released or??

edit - probably not the best language I used

Edited by Jules, 23 April 2013 - 04:31 PM.


#35 tywonreef

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 04:30 PM

QUOTE (Androo @ Apr 23 2013, 06:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This may sound stupid but is it worth someone making it public via media like today tonight or some other show? Even if it dosnt stop them atleast the hundreds of people who have shrimp and don't know what's coming know what their legal rights are.


don't forget that these shrimp are only here because they are being smuggled totally illegally into the country & should not even be here in the first place, they have never been allowed at any time & as unlikely as it is, do present a very minor bio security risk as they bypass quarantine inspections.
I really doubt that you would gain any sympathy from the media at all, in fact likely far more likely to have the opposite effect, the story would more likely become "quarantine & fisheries fail to halt mass influx of potentially disease carrying foreign shrimp!". This would be the worst possible thing for all concerned. keep the media out of it please as any embarrassment to the government could mean a terrible knee jerk reaction.

#36 werdna

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 05:37 PM

No, but it is close to an election, and the only thing politicians care more about than the law is votes...

#37 sajica

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 06:49 PM

We've already had the state election. We're talking about Fisheries WA here.

Unless you're talking about DAFF then yes the federal election is coming. It's Fisheries WA that's doing the confiscating and being judge, jury and executioner.


I'd love to hear their official position at the current stance on native shrimp. If they still feel that they pose a disease risk to the prawn industry, but I don't guess I'd ever get a straight answer.

Edited by saj, 23 April 2013 - 07:11 PM.


#38 Poncho

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 07:16 PM

It's irrelevant to most voters whether this is a state or federal dept doing the dirty work. However, the state pollies do want their counterpart federal pollies in power and they follow the lead of the feds for the most part.

Having some bureaucrat misappropriate their power when any election is pending is not a good look so I think it is worth spelling this out to the appropriate ministers, even if it's a short letter or email - they are obliged to at least respond. Nothing to lose and everything to gain by pointing this out to the right minister's office at this point in time and it would be harder to ignore if you had a fair representation of Perth LFS owners and Presidents of the major fish clubs all signatory to the letter.

However, you can be sure that if we only moan on a few fish forums about shrimp injustice, it will amount to SFA. I'm happy to hear that a few people are willing to take this further with the help of a lawyer, but it would be nice to see the financial burden of this spread across the whole hobby rather than those persistant few all the time. It's about time this hobby as a whole started pounding on some doors and Oliver has given us a good enough reason to.

#39 Buccal

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 07:29 PM

QUOTE (Poncho @ Apr 23 2013, 07:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It's irrelevant to most voters whether this is a state or federal dept doing the dirty work. However, the state pollies do want their counterpart federal pollies in power and they follow the lead of the feds for the most part.

Having some bureaucrat misappropriate their power when any election is pending is not a good look so I think it is worth spelling this out to the appropriate ministers, even if it's a short letter or email - they are obliged to at least respond. Nothing to lose and everything to gain by pointing this out to the right minister's office at this point in time and it would be harder to ignore if you had a fair representation of Perth LFS owners and Presidents of the major fish clubs all signatory to the letter.

However, you can be sure that if we only moan on a few fish forums about shrimp injustice, it will amount to SFA. I'm happy to hear that a few people are willing to take this further with the help of a lawyer, but it would be nice to see the financial burden of this spread across the whole hobby rather than those persistant few all the time. It's about time this hobby as a whole started pounding on some doors and Oliver has given us a good enough reason to.
Very realistic,, good words.


#40 Mr_docfish

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 08:56 PM

I agree with Paul about keeping the media out of it
This is an issue with fish keeping hobbyists and the director of fisheries
Most fish we keep in Oz are in the same boat as the shrimp, but get ignored.... If we can educate the fisheries as to the minor risk of the shrimp (give them a variety to test - voluntarily...) and if no diseases of concern are found, then maybe this will lower the concerns. Fact is you can never get rid of shrimp from the hobby... They just have to manage them...




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