Jump to content





PCS & Stuart M. Grant - Cichlid Preservation Fund - Details here

PCS Photo Competition 2017 - Enter Now - Details here

September PCS Meeting  - Breeding 101 Tues 5th September - Details soon

September Fish of the Month - Altolamprologus calvus "Black" - Details soon


Photo

Wa Fisheries On A Rampage To Rid Wa Of Shrimp


  • Please log in to reply
113 replies to this topic

#41 tywonreef

tywonreef
  • Forum Member
  • Joined: 06-August 07
  • Location: Armadale

Posted 23 April 2013 - 11:50 PM

Really Well said ollie, this is really not about beating of chests & sharpening pitchforks. Just to make you aware that you are not breaking any laws & cannot be punished. It is also about trying to communicate with fisheries & trying to reach a satisfying result for all concerned. This means proving to them that our shrimp do not represent a bio security threat. Those taken for testing will hopefully prove this.
If you wonder how serious they are about prawns & shrimp, just do a quick google search on imported prawns & virus or any other wording. There is plenty of concern & restrictions as well as results of outbreaks if infections caused by these in the past. This actually has very little to do with our shrimp as all cases are salt water specimens imported as food or bait. It is up to us to co operate with them & prove to them that our pets should not be lumped in with these genuine risks.
Remember any political attacks will not gain favour as (& i repeat this again & again & again), these exotics are smuggled into this county illegally in huge numbers. None have ever been brought in legally at all. No politician would be prepared to defend them or those that keep them.
In respect to the native glass shrimp, as far as i am concerned not allowing legal collection & domestic breeding is nuts. Same applies to all our local natives. This ensures that they will never become threatened as they will be conserved in home tanks making repopulation after environmental disasters is possible. My opinion is the same on all marsupials, birds & reptiles. Hobbyists are the most dedicated individuals & will put time, effort & funds into an individual, non threatened animal that is just not possible in zoos or universities.

#42 bigjohnnofish

bigjohnnofish
  • PCS Club Member
  • Joined: 02-August 10
  • Location: Banjo Country aka just past Mundaring

Posted 24 April 2013 - 01:40 AM

QUOTE (Mr_docfish @ Apr 23 2013, 10:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
A bit of extra info:

if you wanted to collect glass shrimps - and you have an inland freshwater fishing licence, your bag limit is 10 (under Schedule 3 of the Regulations - Bag limits - Other Crustacean species not specified above)


so does that mean i can collect 10 glass shrimp with an inland fishing licence and then keep them in my tank and breed them up in larger numbers to use as feeders ???
could i then sell off excess feeders if i had them ???




#43 Juls

Juls
  • Forum Member
  • Joined: 21-February 08
  • Location: Albany

Posted 24 April 2013 - 07:25 AM

Johnno it looks like fisheries are trying to say no you cannot sell the shrimp without having a aquaculture licence.

Juls

#44 ant86

ant86
  • Forum Member
  • Joined: 23-October 12
  • Location: kenwick

Posted 24 April 2013 - 07:45 AM

Just wondering if anyone has been communicating with the fisheries? And had any feed back as of yet?..


My opinion is leave it, it will blow over.. if we make it a bigger issuse by taking it to media etc,
then they will probly make it harder to keep any fish.. which is what paul and ollie have been saying..
tongue.gif

#45 Mr_docfish

Mr_docfish
  • PCS Club Member
  • Joined: 29-July 07
  • Location: Canning Vale WA

Posted 24 April 2013 - 08:47 AM

QUOTE (bigjohnnofish @ Apr 24 2013, 01:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
so does that mean i can collect 10 glass shrimp with an inland fishing licence and then keep them in my tank and breed them up in larger numbers to use as feeders ???
could i then sell off excess feeders if i had them ???



Well, no you still cant sell them, if you do, only 10 every 24 hours, as bag limits and possession limits are the same (unless you are breeding them, you can possess more than 10, but if you are transporting them, you will have an impossible time convincing the fisheries that you bred them all and just caught them....)
But you dont need an aquaculture licence or a translocation licence.

It is all a grey area within the act - fisheries can twist the words and situation to suit their needs - like the senior fisheries officer that was in my face and was lying through his teeth at me said the following "you buy shrimp from the public and you sell them, that makes you a wholesaler"
Well, what is the definition of a wholesaler vs a retailer?
If you ask fisheries, they have a different interpretation to the rest of the world...


One more bit:

You dont need an inland fishing licence for glass shrimp if you collect them from a designated estuary.

Edited by Mr_docfish, 24 April 2013 - 08:49 AM.


#46 slink

slink
  • PCS Club Member
  • Joined: 10-September 07
  • Location: Aveley

Posted 24 April 2013 - 11:10 AM

QUOTE (Mr_docfish @ Apr 24 2013, 08:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You dont need an inland fishing licence for glass shrimp if you collect them from a designated estuary.


What do they class as a designated estuary?

#47 Mr_docfish

Mr_docfish
  • PCS Club Member
  • Joined: 29-July 07
  • Location: Canning Vale WA

Posted 24 April 2013 - 03:19 PM

salty water.... ie somewhere you wont find trout or marron

#48 slink

slink
  • PCS Club Member
  • Joined: 10-September 07
  • Location: Aveley

Posted 24 April 2013 - 06:55 PM

huh.gif So you would need a license to catch them because you would be catching them not in a designated estuary

#49 Juls

Juls
  • Forum Member
  • Joined: 21-February 08
  • Location: Albany

Posted 24 April 2013 - 06:58 PM

The mouth of any river is estuary, inlets are estuarys.

Survival of glassies caught in salty water is dismal, caught far upstream (10-20ks +) survive better.

Juls

#50 slink

slink
  • PCS Club Member
  • Joined: 10-September 07
  • Location: Aveley

Posted 24 April 2013 - 07:04 PM

right so it doesn't have to be "salty" water for them to class it an estuary makes sense smile.gif I was thinking that I have seen a few glass shrimp in upper swan area

#51 Mr_docfish

Mr_docfish
  • PCS Club Member
  • Joined: 29-July 07
  • Location: Canning Vale WA

Posted 24 April 2013 - 08:29 PM

QUOTE (Juls @ Apr 24 2013, 06:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Survival of glassies caught in salty water is dismal, caught far upstream (10-20ks +) survive better.

Juls


Why's that? Is there a disease that the prawns in the river pass on to the glassies?
According to fisheries, the glassies will wipe out when you put a cherry next to it - or do you think it would be the other way around?

Edited by Mr_docfish, 24 April 2013 - 08:29 PM.


#52 bigjohnnofish

bigjohnnofish
  • PCS Club Member
  • Joined: 02-August 10
  • Location: Banjo Country aka just past Mundaring

Posted 25 April 2013 - 12:36 AM

glass shrimp are bigger than the ones you had at the shop olley - i would imagine glass shrimp would attack and eat smaller shrimp....

ok heres some different colours of cherry shrimp i found googling looking for glass shrimp v cherry shrimp







now this is a mean shrimp



love this stingray feeding on glass shrimp



hows this glass/ghost shrimp feeding on malaysian trumpet snail - hmmm i like this



something else eating snails



big puffer eating snails.... biggrin.gif ... can we get these puffers in australia olley or anybody else ?



finally found one olley.... ghost shrimp (glass shrimp) eating yellow cherry shrimp smile.gif so there you have it took awhile on the google train and got side tracked...



so the answer is yes glass shrimp eat cherry shrimp smile.gif


#53 Juls

Juls
  • Forum Member
  • Joined: 21-February 08
  • Location: Albany

Posted 25 April 2013 - 08:19 PM

The glasses caught in salty water just don't acclimatize well to fresh. Neither are they as temperature resistant. They appear to be identical shrimp though. When found in estuarine they are often abundant even during the day, in freshwater upstream they tend to seldom be seen during the day, usually hiding in plants, at night the quantity can be mind boggling.

I've been keeping WA glass shrimp with all other types of shrimps for years, there is no interaction issues, no cross disease issues, they live fine next to all other shrimp types, ignore them even.

The main issue is temperature, WA glass shrimp (Palaemonetes Australis) are less resistant to temps above 22 degrees, although I've successfully kept them for more than a year in large community tanks full of fish and many varietys of shrimp and summer temps often where 28 plus.

The only small fish I found them scared of is western Pygmy perch, but then western Pygmy perch totally destroy any shrimp up to there own size or even larger. Cherry shrimp don't stand a chance against western Pygmy perch.

The only shrimp that somehow manages to beat the western Pygmy perch is the West Australian chameleon shrimp, that aqoutix where selling renamed as ninja shrimp. These guys can hide and survive in amazing situations far better than cherrys, they are West Aussies afterall.

Our glass shrimp is typically found alongside both western goby ,swan river goby and western hardyhead. it is often found alongside western galaxias and sometimes common jollytails. Also nightfish. It is found with western Pygmy perch but usually where the perch are in fewer numbers. While I have found both galaxiella species and lepidogalaxias within the same water catchment I've not found them alongside Palaemonetes Australis.

It's worth considering fisheries do not care at all about our native ornamental species, because these bring them no money, they don't secure there jobs. Introduced aquaculture species generate money to keep them in jobs. Native marron are the only native species that generates concernable funds to keep hold of fisheries jobs. If a aquarium species could potentially effect fisheries income or upset a major stakeholder, then of course they will act. I guess the question is what stakeholder did the cherry shrimp upset.

Juls

Edited by Juls, 25 April 2013 - 09:01 PM.


#54 Rovik

Rovik
  • PCS Club Member
  • Joined: 12-July 10
  • Location: Bullcreek

Posted 25 April 2013 - 08:24 PM

QUOTE (Mr_docfish @ Apr 25 2013, 07:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You know how swear words get re-written, maybe change the word 'shrimp' to 'high risk death killer prawn'


hahahahahaha. laugh.gif

Reminds me of that Simpsons episode with "Pinchy the lobster"


How we see shrimp:






How "They" see shrimp:



#55 Androo

Androo
  • PCS Club Member
  • Joined: 24-November 12
  • Location: Thornlie

Posted 01 May 2013 - 08:23 AM

Has anyone heard of any more people being raided or heard any feedback?

Edited by Androo, 01 May 2013 - 08:24 AM.


#56 Jac

Jac
  • Forum Member
  • Joined: 27-August 10

Posted 01 May 2013 - 05:42 PM

Well I somehow warranted (no pun intended) a visit today... Main reason I was surprised - I used to have ONE 90L tank with cherries, and only sold when quantities got too high cause they'd bred up. Not exactly a major player.

Supposedly there were 4 'private' residences which have had warrants served. They phoned today and met me at work to discuss. I advised them I was aware of their actions, and explained to them the general feeling (taken predominantly from this feed/blog) about how cloak & dagger this has all been.

I asked how it had all come about and in brief, according to Fisheries, (summary not verbatim): ornamental shrimp not endemic (native) to Australia were originally brought in illegally around 7 years ago. Numbers have recently gotten sufficiently high to warrant national fisheries attention - including large numbers of continuing imports from overseas. Hence crack-down. In order for federal fisheries to issue a warrant in WA they're accompanied by WA fisheries...who have subsequently been instructed to shut down any sellers.

The 'legislative changes' aren't changes - per earlier in this post, the CEO of Fisheries can if they decide any species is a risk to native populations issue a warrant to have the illegal species destroyed. The only 'change' coming about, which is supposedly going to happen in 3 or so weeks, is that the term Aquahobbyist, will cease to exist and ANYONE who breeds and then sells a non-native species, must have a TRANSLOCATION licence per current Aquaculture laws.

The thing I've hated most about all this is - I just bought cherry's originally from my local fish shop. At no point was I advised they were 'illegal'. Yet I feel I've been treated like a criminal. And then to top it off, my 'pet' will be killed because it's illegal and a risk. I told them I'd checked their website, checked the invasive species list...no information.

Wouldn't the 'right' thing to do be to treat us as responsible parties in the first instance, advertise this change in stance and consult with people about how to proceed....rather than knocking on people's door with a warrant and 5 people with a video camera? Talk about intimidating. And then it's supposed to be 'ok' because they aren't prosecuting us??

Horse bolted/lock the barn door...?? Seems all little too late, and that there are much broader issues. Just getting rid of the term Aquahobbyist is not going to solve things, you’re then basically lumping a kid with an aquarium in with a commercial marron farm?! And as I saw someone else had mentioned – they’re not aquarium specialists, by their own admission, so again I say: wouldn’t a reasonable starting point be to consult with people about whether or not they pose a risk to native species?

I asked whether cherry shrimp / ornamental shrimp were now classed as an invasive species/illegal/whatever you want to call it, in ALL states and was advised that that was for other states to decide, that currently (lucky us) it’s just WA.

Heart-breaking.

#57 slink

slink
  • PCS Club Member
  • Joined: 10-September 07
  • Location: Aveley

Posted 01 May 2013 - 07:27 PM

Wow having to apply for translocation permits could cripple the hobby and industry sad.gif

#58 Buccal

Buccal
  • Forum Member
  • Joined: 02-October 10

Posted 01 May 2013 - 07:57 PM

So this means a end for all breeders of fish and shrimp ???

#59 Anka

Anka
  • Forum Member
  • Joined: 01-November 11
  • Location: Kallaroo, WA

Posted 01 May 2013 - 08:08 PM

I don't even know what to say...

This is horrible.

#60 Buccal

Buccal
  • Forum Member
  • Joined: 02-October 10

Posted 01 May 2013 - 08:13 PM

Doubts its true, whats your thoughts Patrick ?,,, if your still looking.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users