54 replies to this topic

[Kieran]

We can provide all the right places but are we as a whole smart enough to use them? Will it turn into a moderaters nightmare?

Exactly. I don't think it would be fair to expect our current mods to deal with the puzzle that could ensue from getting too specific. It could be a big step up in commitment to the site if everything has to be relocated.

I for one keep Discus. Technically a cichlid, but I'm not sure that the club caters well for them, and I remember when I was first getting into them or had a problem I was basically pointed to other sites for information. It would be great to see a properly delineated section for discus and similar fish, because I'm sure you wouldn't treat them the same way that you would a malawi, for example.

It's great to see growth, and I think that, being the preeminent 'fish' club in Perth there is a certain onus on the PCS to cater for whatever comes as the aquarist community grows or we risk dividing important information and possibly alienating experienced and valued members of our community. I think not only is it a good idea to have sections for non-cichlid topics, it is a necessity to ensure that club members and newbies that want to go off on tangents are supported. I want to make it clear that I have never learned so much about the hobby as when I've been immersed in the great community that is the PCS, and I can't wait for meetings and auctions to come around. There's only so much you can learn from books, and I am grateful to you all.

I don't keep or have a great deal of knowledge of what I would consider 'true' cichlids, and as a result I would get completely confused if the forum setup was not explicitly clear as to what goes where when I want to get more into other cichlids. This is my hobby, and if I have to work hard to make sense of things before I can even post a question for the collective experience here to answer then I'm just going to go somewhere else, unfortunately.

Juls I love your suggestions for forum sections. My only addition would be a comprehensive list of each species in a sticky at the top of each cichlid section for those of us who don't know what's what in the hardcore cichlid world.

Back to the topic on hand, how about we compile the list of suggested names for this section, and open a poll module at the top of the post? If just this section is to be renamed, I think 'Tank Busters' is sufficient, provided that a decent description is provided.

[Tucunare]

i reckon that its all getting more indepth than it has to be.
a blacktip reef shark is a tank buster - but could be in marine
a koi is a tank buster- but could be in coldwater and ponds
a barra is a tank buster - but could be in angfa
a rtc is a tank buster - but could be in catfish
a temensis is a tank buster - but could be in the cichlid section.
a guppy in a test tube could also be called a tank buster if thats its full time home.

take alook at monsterfishkeepers a site dedicated to TBs it has alot of sub catagories that cover all tankbusters from all species. short of doing that i dont think theres a clear cut answer to direct all traffic to one catagory.

Tankbuster as the heading in brackets fish that grow over 50cm as wild adults.

but in saying that you need the "other fish" part aswell to have a section for things that dont fall into any of the existing catagories like piranah, snakeheads, puffers etc.

[kamalau]

id say have a section called exotics/tankbusters and called sumin like basic tropical for smaller not so agressive/big/expensive fish
coz stuff like a black ghost knife or gudgeon dosent belong in a tankbuster section

[Scales]

i totally agree with juls, he has put elequent ideas down that i could not describe myself without getting critisistic and i appologise to those who put the time and effort into the pcs site that i may have offended with my last post on this subject.
if changes were to be made it would be a shame to use a bandaid solution like changing the desription of a forum section, as the education factor of the site would still be minimal and confusion would still be apparrent.
adding/grouping sections surely is beneficial to the pcs and its members

[Den]

Im dont like seeing too many subcatagories, especially on smaller forums, nothing more frustrating then having to go to 10 subcats to find only 5 new threads! Also when going into a section I like bumping into a broader range of posts covering a bit of a diversity of fish species, helps me and Im sure others to expand our understanding and interests in this hobby.

Tanks busters seems to be a fad thats gone quiet, hopefully not for too long, Im one person whos just getting back into keeping TB's.

Sorry but I also like the idea of a hybrids section, I like flowerhorns and at least then there would be a legitimate place to go for people who like MMdiscus.

I think ultimately the mods know whats best, because they are dealing with catagorising posts daily.

PS I think this skin is the best one yet, I like it because its easy on the eyes, please dont change it!

Cheers
Den

[CubanB]

Predatory Fish and Oddballs

[golden_dase]

CubanB's suggestion is quite good!

[Den]

My understanding is that most fish are predators, apart from vegetarian grazers, but even these will predate on fry, larve etc when they get a chance.

My little tetras are more predatory than many of my cichlids, they hammer insects like mini pirhanas!

[CubanB]

DEN - how about - Large Predatory Fish and Oddballs

lets see how your tetras go up against my umbee lol

[Den]

Umbee! thats the minature poodle of the fish family. It seems you are unfamilliar with the size and ferocity of larger Characins/tetras!

Let the tetra vs Umbee battle begin!

Just let me find some Payara and we can have a showdown!

[Scales]

i still think giving location of where fish are from (ca, sa, afr, asia) is the best way to go and elliminate the t/b section all together. if its a t/b from c/a then they go in the c/a section. if a fish gets put in a wrong section mods could move it as they do now. all current posts remain where they are and slowly mods (or general members even) could move them at leasure until they have all been sorted and t/b and cichlid section as they are no longer are there

[dazzabozza]

What about Cichlid Discussion. Would that remain for general discussion or be replaced by each of the regions??

[Juls]

i still think giving location of where fish are from (ca, sa, afr, asia) is the best way to go and elliminate the t/b section all together. \

The only problem i see is people who are even moderately new (a year or less) to the hobby most likely will have NFI where there fish they are interested in come from.

there is alot to know about fishkeeping, i think the generic names will keep things user friendly.

it's a big mess to try and consider what to do, the reality is we mainly only have WA people here, and in reality as busy as the forum is,
it's probably not busy enough to be getting very specific.

I often come on perth cichlid and there is only 10-15 people on the forum.

I have other interests which the forums i visit often have upwards of 500 people on the forum (Australian forum too) at any one time.

Juls

[CubanB]

Umbee! thats the minature poodle of the fish family. It seems you are unfamilliar with the size and ferocity of larger Characins/tetras!

Let the tetra vs Umbee battle begin!

Just let me find some Payara and we can have a showdown!

Sorry "Jump To Conclusions Man"

For 1 thing you said you had a group of tetras in your tank that could nail insects.... INSECTS!!! Obviously you weren't talking about larger Charachin like Payara, Armatus or Dorado etc LOL

Secondly... no i'm not that unfamiliar with the larger Charachin/tetra family

Thirdly, lets get back on track with the title topic ya doosh

Ahhh watchout it's a group of wild tetras

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•  Big_Mouth_1_1.jpg   93.58KB   17 downloads

[Scales]

The only problem i see is people who are even moderately new (a year or less) to the hobby most likely will have NFI where there fish they are interested in come from.

there is alot to know about fishkeeping, i think the generic names will keep things user friendly.

it's a big mess to try and consider what to do, the reality is we mainly only have WA people here, and in reality as busy as the forum is,
it's probably not busy enough to be getting very specific.

I often come on perth cichlid and there is only 10-15 people on the forum.

I have other interests which the forums i visit often have upwards of 500 people on the forum (Australian forum too) at any one time.

Juls

hense they can use the search engine on the forum and learn specifically what they want, i thought this would be a no brainer as thats the easiest way to look for what you want????? also after they use a search they will know exactly where they would be from but you would be a not so bright fish keeper (or quite irresponsible) if you dont research your fish of interest before you purchase them in the first place

[Den]

Keep it as tankbusters only, with a size limit, for example Tankbusters "any fish that grows over 30cm", though the size needs to be discussed and agreed on.

For 1 thing you said you had a group of tetras in your tank that could nail insects.... INSECTS!!! Obviously you weren't talking about larger Charachin like Payara, Armatus or Dorado etc LOL

Yeah but these are the feeder insects I was talking about...

[Scales]

Sorry "Jump To Conclusions Man"

For 1 thing you said you had a group of tetras in your tank that could nail insects.... INSECTS!!! Obviously you weren't talking about larger Charachin like Payara, Armatus or Dorado etc LOL

Secondly... no i'm not that unfamiliar with the larger Charachin/tetra family

Thirdly, lets get back on track with the title topic ya doosh

Ahhh watchout it's a group of wild tetras

lol den a doosh??? never would have thought

Keep it as tankbusters only, with a size limit, for example Tankbusters "any fish that grows over 30cm", though the size needs to be discussed and agreed on.




Yeah but these are the feeder insects I was talking about...

you always miss the point right in front of you den, why use an example that is obviously not relivant to the point at hand?

[Ivan Sng]

I have been intentionally avoiding this thread ... but man has it grown with mixed opinions...

As I once read somewhere... in anything, there will always be mixed opinions usually in the ratio of 1/3 will agree, 1/3 will not agree, and 1/3 basically don't care...

So my point is whatever is decided, 1/3 will agree on the new name, 1/3 will not and 1/3 basically don't care... in short, you
cannot satisfy everyone, there will always be those you cannot satisfied... tough luck, get over it...

Just scroll back to the thread, and you will see the pattern I describe above...

I agree with what Juls have wrote... and monstr red devil keepr... just because you are already an expert, does not give you the right to decide that the new comers will not be bright fish or will be irresponsible keepers... everyone is different and some go into hobbies by diving head first and others test the water with their feet first... regardless ... which is why in order to make sure that help is given to such new comers, the forum description should be a simple as possible... Your approach seems to be trying to alienate those new comers and make it too hard for them to even consider posting or reading more...

Moderators? Is that the intent of this forum??? And not everyone is good at computers, so even the Search function could be a hurdle... And the same people you could be trying to alienate may be experts in another field... so show some humility and allow them to learn in the simplest way possible... and if you don't wish to help, sit back and drink your beer...

[Scales]

ivan, this was the first forum i joined a while ago and the way it was then, as still is now, was confusing to me as a forum begginner and at that time a computer begginer.

my opinion that people that dont research their fish of choice before purchase is my opinion and for you to seemingly comment on it like an arse is just rude. most reputable lfs will offer advise of research then buy and are mostly under the understanding that if a person does not follow that advise then oh well, if they dont listen they will just be back to spend more money anyway- win win for the lfs

i am not an expert, i am very knowledgable on the areas of fish keeping that i know and the ones that i dont know i do not to comment on, but as i follow the advise of my lfs i research so i know at least as much as is possible if something is new to me or goes wrong. the problem is that most that ask how do i do this that and the other are kids, one of the main problems with forums, and as such when a comment is made like 'dull or irresponsible' in regards to these people maybe i should have said 'lazy' as most of the time if they took 30 minutes out of their day to look things up they would at least know most of the answers to their questions.

if you are really that passionate about your views then i encourage you to meet me in person and i will sort you out face to face as i take the approach of trying to help out anyone- especially the younger forum members, not critisice those for trying to explain their point of view unless they are obviously so single minded that they dont look from other peoples veiws and i seek out the older members of our fish society to learn from their vast knowledge. if you think that this is 'alienating' begginners or new people then just ask them......

if they agree with you then i stand corrected but im sure that as you were the reason why this topic started in the first place then you should shut up and listen to more seasoned people in the hobby.

[dazzabozza]

...the forum description should be a simple as possible... Your approach seems to be trying to alienate those new comers and make it too hard for them to even consider posting or reading more...

Moderators? Is that the intent of this forum??? And not everyone is good at computers, so even the Search function could be a hurdle... And the same people you could be trying to alienate may be experts in another field... so show some humility and allow them to learn in the simplest way possible... and if you don't wish to help, sit back and drink your beer...

Hi Ivan

You're seriously taking the intent of this discussion the wrong way. The goal is to move away from the over-simple descriptions of "Tank Busters - Use this board for fish which dont fall into other boards categories" and "Community and Planted Tank - This Forum is moderated by the Aquarium Society of WA". Had these descriptions been a little more descriptive (doesn't have to be specific) it would help guide the newer people on where to place their posts.

Personally I think the "Use this board for fish which dont fall into other boards categories" against Tank Busters has been a bit of a cop-out.

Things will evolve over time and hopefully become more efficient. As an example, prior to you and your partner coming along there was no Aquaponics section. Since you sparked an interest I added it to the Pond, Outdoor Fish section. Before then the posts (although not a huge amount) used to end up all over the place (OffTheWall, Technical, Outdoor).

The goal of the PCS is not to belittle people that come into the hobby it's quite the opposite. Embrace it, love it, do whatever it takes to enjoy it!


Daz

PS - Your guppy post alone didn't trigger this discussion. Over time mods have had to move plenty of threads from here to other sections. Just trying to make things a tad more stream-lined.