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Mythbusting Peppermints


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#1 werdna

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Posted 20 February 2010 - 04:28 PM

Hey all
I figured I would share my experience with these fish cos there seems to be a bit of a myth about them being difficult to breed.
So I'll start with some history...

About a year ago I figured I might give some L#s a go. I figured I would start with something affordable before buying $4000 worth of fish.
Especially seen as for some reason the only fish I have kept that I havent managed to get to breed is bristlenose??!!
I was lucky enough to be given a pair of roughly 2 year old peps, that hadnt bred and had been kept in a cichlid tank their whole life.
So I grabbed my spare 3 ft tank, put it in the free spot I had on the bottom of my 3tier 4ft rack next to the air pump, put $3 worth of sand from soils aint soils in and threw in a couple of pieces of driftwood for them.
For filtration I had a spare small eheim, used an air stone to help circulate water, and threw in a spare heater.
Even the poly on the bottom was a collection of pieces I got from a fridge or something!

The 2 peps were in by themselves and seemed pretty happy hiding under their piece of wood each, but they wouldnt eat any food I put in there, even tho the sand was always covered in their poo.
I figured they preferred eating the wood, so I stopped feeding them.... ever.
Being only 2 fish in a 3 foot tank I also didnt do water changes very often, only when the water started looking pretty dirty, which meant roughly once every 3 months, yes, 3 months between water changes.

After about 8 months, I noticed everyone seemed to have success with D caves, so I bought one and threw it in the middle of the tank.
Now looks like this...


about 6 weeks later my male was living in the cave and there was a big storm coming, so I did a 50% water change, and the next morning he was fanning away.
My first batch had 7 survivors.

6 weeks later, there was another storm, so I repeated the process.
This was the result

This time I figured I would carry on taking care of them the way I always had... ie not taking care of them.
I had about 30 survive. The only change with their care was a fortnightly water change and a slice of zucchini or pumpkin etc once a week, as can be seen in the first pic.

Then with the poor excuse for a storm we had 2 weeks ago I did another water change and got this today.


So there is my experience with taking care of Peppermint catfish.
Dont bother asking me about my water parameters, I have only 1 test kit, an ammonia one from when I was stupid enough to keep marine! and it is now about 2 years out of date. I've never needed one since seeing the light and going back to freshwater.

Sorry about the quality of the photos, they were taken on my phone.

Cheers

Andrew

#2 ado

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Posted 20 February 2010 - 04:53 PM

Great story and pics!!

Seems like you got it all figured out!!



#3 werdna

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Posted 20 February 2010 - 04:58 PM

Cheers Ado

I am still experimenting, so I have separated the fry this time.
I am getting worried tho, winter is coming, and if they keep breeding in every storm we get I am going to run out of tanks!

Andrew

#4 nick05

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Posted 20 February 2010 - 05:45 PM

QUOTE (werdna @ Feb 20 2010, 04:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
cos there seems to be a bit of a myth about them being difficult to breed.


Heh myth you call it dry.gif

Are the fry in a sep tank? or same tank?
Glad to finally see some photos tongue.gif

Nick

#5 werdna

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Posted 20 February 2010 - 06:48 PM

I took them for you originally Nick, then figured I may as well share!

This batch I've put in a separate tank.



#6 nick05

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Posted 21 February 2010 - 09:09 AM

I know tongue.gif it's appreciated.
I'm 22 days since water change and I tested my water and every thing was well and truly fine.

Now I just need you to run me through your storm dance again.. smile.gif

#7 ibm450

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Posted 21 February 2010 - 11:13 AM

wow, thats cool. im tempted....what sort of soil / sand did you get from soils aint soils? would that soil you got from SAS would it be fine for a normal tank setup i.e. for tetras, mollies etc etc


cheers
tolga


#8 werdna

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Posted 21 February 2010 - 12:00 PM

QUOTE (nick05 @ Feb 21 2010, 09:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I know tongue.gif it's appreciated.
I'm 22 days since water change and I tested my water and every thing was well and truly fine.

Now I just need you to run me through your storm dance again.. smile.gif


The storm dance is a closely guarded secret. Nobody will ever find out!

QUOTE (ibm450 @ Feb 21 2010, 11:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
wow, thats cool. im tempted....what sort of soil / sand did you get from soils aint soils? would that soil you got from SAS would it be fine for a normal tank setup i.e. for tetras, mollies etc etc


cheers
tolga

It is just called white sand and comes in 20kg bags.
Just give it a wash.
Will work fine with those fish.

Andrew

#9 Scales

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 05:04 PM

the 'storm dance' is also a myth, it just helps, but the process to spawn without the storms is one of my closest guarded secrets tongue.gif

#10 Scat

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 08:40 PM

Hi Werdna smile.gif

A very interesting topic in regards to mythbusting peppermints as i have bred alot of peppermints with no effort and believe it just comes down to age myself.

Mine are in a 4ft tank, bare bottom with some wood and a heap of D caves, I feed them NLS grow and do a 35% w/c weekly with tap water, I cant stop them from breeding. That being said i grew all my peps up from 3cm juives so i know what age they are at which if you buy a adult pair in some cases they may be old and are at the end of their breeding cycle rather than the begining which will infuriate you to no end and no matter how many techniques you try it just wont help smile.gif

Patience is the trick by growing them out smile.gif

Cheers smile.gif
Craig



#11 nick05

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 09:21 PM

And at what age did you notice them start to breed Craig? And have you managed to get any towards the end of their cycle? How long do they breed well for?
I had trouble with mine at first, put it down to trying too hard to get them to breed, after talking with Andrew and adopting his methods mine are breeding like crazy.. decent sized regular spawns.

Nick

#12 Scat

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 09:39 PM

Hi Nick,

Mine first started to breed at 18 months of age, although infrequently and small batches, as far as the end of their cycle i dont know yet as they are now 4 years old and still breeding every 3-4weeks.

A very wise hobbiest once taught me that fish will breed on their own in many cases when they are ready rather than when you are ready smile.gif and for some of those he waited 8 years blink.gif

Like i said , my method is the slack version, tap water changes and nsl grow, temp 26c wood and caves, the fry are not seperated and grow out in the same tank as the breeders smile.gif

Cheers
Craig

#13 werdna

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 09:59 PM


It appears we have quite similar approaches.
Cheers for the comments, it is always interesting to see how other people look after same fish

If only all fish were this easy!

Andrew

#14 Fish Antics

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Posted 09 April 2010 - 09:59 PM

It is my belief that many fish including peppermints are becoming easier to spawn with each new generation. Originally Peppies were very demanding and required a routine such as simulating a drying river bed and then a surge of new water after a storm. With each generation spawned in captivity it seems that these requirements are no longer required. As Craig says the only requirement is good water conditions, good food and patients.

Tony

#15 Daniel Stefanovich

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Posted 17 April 2010 - 10:24 PM

Hey Andrew

Do you think you would be able to keep peppermints in a tank as small as 2ft?
Because i am interested in keeping peppermints, PM me with some information

thanks, Daniel smile.gif

#16 werdna

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Posted 17 April 2010 - 10:47 PM


Can't see why not.

In fact, I think Nick05 uses a 2ft for his...? He can confirm tho.

Andrew

#17 nick05

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Posted 18 April 2010 - 09:30 AM

Yea I have a pair in a 2x1x1 well filtered, lots of flow. I don't do any water changes I just top up the tank every 4 - 6 weeks.
And they are currently breeding every 6 weeks or so.

HTH
Nick

#18 werdna

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 01:15 AM

Just figured I would post an update.
2 weeks ago I started wondering why my peps hadn't bred since I started this topic.
I realised that the only difference between then and now was that I was placing some zucchini in the tank twice a week to feed the juvies.
So I figured what the hell, I'll try not feeding them at all again.

As of friday morning the male is fanning eggs again!
These fish are bizarre!
And not even a storm dance this time Nick! tongue.gif

Maybe I should stop feeding all my fish!

Cheers

Andrew

#19 ibm450

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 09:16 PM

lol



#20 werdna

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Posted 08 May 2010 - 12:13 PM

New update!
The male pep had kicked out a small bunch of eggs on wednesday as one had turned white, so I pulled them out, removed the white egg, and placed them in an icecream container with a drop of meth blue.
The tails and heads separated from the egg today and the egg skin is starting to separate from the egg sacks.
You can see in the pic the one all by itself on the right was the first to "hatch" and separate from the clump.


Its quite fascinating when you can see it all happening.
If I get time I might do a daily photolog to show growth rate.

Cheers

Andrew




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