149 replies to this topic

[bigjohnnofish]

it all boils back down to supply and demand.....

if the demand for hybrids is big - then people will breed them....

if the demand for purebred fish is big - then people will breed them...

if the demand is poor or non-existent - then people wont breed them... whos gonna breed truckloads of fish they cant do anything with???

let supply and demand dictate whats bred and whats not....

the world is being opened to free trade.... why not the classifieds???

personally i dont give a rats @#$% either way... if i like a fish i'll buy it... pretty darn simple...

[ado]

it all boils back down to supply and demand.....

if the demand for hybrids is big - then people will breed them....

if the demand for purebred fish is big - then people will breed them...

if the demand is poor or non-existent - then people wont breed them... whos gonna breed truckloads of fish they cant do anything with???

let supply and demand dictate whats bred and whats not....

the world is being opened to free trade.... why not the classifieds???

Supply and demand does indeed regulate our free market economy.
But, for good reason, there are still many things that are illegal to both produce and purchase.
So obviously the theory of supply and demand doesn't regulate what CAN be bought and sold, just their price.

Human slavery ended not that long ago and it wasn't due to a lack of demand...

[ruffaz]

why does pcs not allow the sale of them just for arguments sake

also the thing id be most concerned about is the fact that braseliances (spelling) has been introduced in to our river system and its only amount of time before they will breed with local bream thats what i would be worried about.

as far as the hobbiest comunity goes i dont see what the big problem is as long as its documented what it is.

just wondering weather or not if you cross a noxious fish whith a non noxious one how that would stand

Id like to see a pbass and a giant cichlid or a discus and a catty

[werdna]

To save opening yet another can of worms... Just do a search on hybrid fish.
The argument has been argued many times in the last year, I dont really think there is any point starting another one!

[scottyhooton]

you want a manaconda.............. in my trousers....


or you could root a snake ... man x annaconda

there are many sites that do allow hybrids...... dont let the door hit you on the way out

[kamalau]

why does pcs not allow the sale of them just for arguments sake


also the thing id be most concerned about is the fact that braseliances (spelling) has been introduced in to our river system and its only amount of time before they will breed with local bream thats what i would be worried about.

as far as the hobbiest comunity goes i dont see what the big problem is as long as its documented what it is.

just wondering weather or not if you cross a noxious fish whith a non noxious one how that would stand

Id like to see a pbass and a giant cichlid or a discus and a catty

hahaha braziliensis cant breed with bream that is geneticly impossible they are just too different
neither can pbass and giant cichlids or discus and catfish
so i wouldnt be to worried about these fish cross breeding
the fish that can cross breed are ones with similar genetic makeup, ie fish in the same genus can cross but fish from differant familys cant

[Dr_Pat]

I thought species was the level at which organisms became genetically isolated? In anycase, if wild fishes exist together in the same environment then what's to say a good portion of what we consider "pure blood lines" (because they were caught from the wild) are not actually natural hybrids? (Infact I think it quite likely).

In any case, I'm pretty happy with the variety of fish I can buy from the LFS without the need of "artificial" hybrids but if you're breeding a whole lot of hybrids for yourself, what are you going to do with them all if not try to sell them? (the title of the thread)

[ruffaz]

hahaha braziliensis cant breed with bream that is geneticly impossible they are just too different
neither can pbass and giant cichlids or discus and catfish
so i wouldnt be to worried about these fish cross breeding
the fish that can cross breed are ones with similar genetic makeup, ie fish in the same genus can cross but fish from differant familys cant

it was actully a wish it could happen type of thing however im pretty sure bream and brazilences have been crossed by the uwa i think it was them when they were found at the sticks unless it was a nother breed they crossed with

[bigjohnnofish]

Human slavery ended not that long ago and it wasn't due to a lack of demand...

yes indeed it did "officially" - but theres still plenty of it going on around the world.... hence the term "black market"

[ruffaz]

define slavery as im pretty sure a lot of peole around the world are forced in thing like human trafficting and the sex trade ill call that slavery but back on topic now people

[ado]

yes indeed it did "officially" - but theres still plenty of it going on around the world.... hence the term "black market"

Errr...I know that slavery still exists in many forms. But that kind of misses the point

The PCS policy on hybrids is fine. As others have said, if you don't like it....move on.

[ruffaz]

i think the questern was why not wheather we think its stupid or not is not relavant

[chocobikies]

i dont see anything wrong with hyrbid fishes - ppl who have issues with it - its like saying you cant cross anything else - dogs/cats. and hey my mutt of a dog is absolutely gorgeous

[alex101]

this is a stupid thing we have heaps of hybrid fish like discus goldfish guppies angelfish so why dont we ban them

[Peckoltia]

it was actully a wish it could happen type of thing however im pretty sure bream and brazilences have been crossed by the uwa i think it was them when they were found at the sticks unless it was a nother breed they crossed with

I've never heard of bream and braziliensis being hybridized. Where did you read that UWA has done it?

i dont see anything wrong with hyrbid fishes - ppl who have issues with it - its like saying you cant cross anything else - dogs/cats. and hey my mutt of a dog is absolutely gorgeous

Not the same thing. Crossing "breeds" of dog is not hybridization, as all dog breeds are the same species. This is a flawed parallel to draw.

this is a stupid thing we have heaps of hybrid fish like discus goldfish guppies angelfish so why dont we ban them

The fish listed are aquarium strains for the most part. This is why they are not banned on the pcs forums.

[Den]

The PCS policy on hybrids is fine. As others have said, if you don't like it....move on.

Alot of people are, but are you sure thats a positive way to run the club?

Adrian what you are saying here is that because you like and agree with the hybrid policy which was made with almost zero consultation with the clubs members that any member who doesn't like this policy should piss off. Im afraid I dont agree with this attitude, its completely undemocratic, this is what the Nazi's did in Germany.

Look at this poll, does the clubs hybrid policy reflect the feelings of the majority of members? though more questions need to be asked, it seems not.

I've raised a topic regarding the lack of democracy in the club in another section, havent had time to get back to it, but the undemocratic way in which the club is run has caused many people to be disenfranchised with this club over the years.

Now with the sponsors supporting the club there will be new members coming all the time, just dont expect alot of them to stay for long, once people see the way this place runs many of them have and will continue to do as you seem to wish, they will move on.

Cheers
Den

[luohanfan]

Do you think it is ok to breed Hybrids for PERSONAL INTEREST (not for RESALE)
Yes [ 78 ] ** [59.09%]
No [ 41 ] ** [31.06%]
Sometimes [ 13 ] ** [9.85%]
Total Votes: 132


seems PCS isnt taking the majority into account..
Times have changed, hybrids are and will be a part of this hobby/industry as of now..
Just like anything else that man has developed, hybrids have there place..
honestly, some people just get stuck in the dark ages

[Cawdor]

It's quite interesting that both of you (Den and Luohanfan) point out the poll. The poll shows, as you correctly point out, that the majority agrees that hybrids bred for private reasons and NOT FOR RESALE, are ok. Which is in line with the PCS terms and conditions that cover this forum. We do not allow the promotion and sale of hybrids on the forum, but what people do in their own homes is none of our concern. We do not condone the creation of hybrids but in the end people decide for themselves what they want to do.

There are forums dedicated to hybrids and I am sure you guys are members there. So why you see the need to force your views on this topic onto the rest of us here, I'm not sure.
The policy has been in place before I joined, so I don't know when it was first put in place or how it was done. But I was aware of it when I joined and I will leave it at that.

[Kieran]

Does anyone else just not care anymore?

To quote The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy: [about the Cricket people]

"We're not obsessed by anything, you see,'' insisted Ford.
"And that's the deciding factor. We can't win against obsession. They care, we don't. They win.''

I care if you actively try to taint the genetics of all the available fish in the area, but I don't care if you breed one species with another, or feed one to another, or Troy McClure your fish for that matter, in your own home.

Online polls mean nothing, really. Bring it up at a meeting. Hell, organise a debate if you care so much about it. But spouting off on here isn't likely to change things in the club.

[ruffaz]

It's quite interesting that both of you (Den and Luohanfan) point out the poll. The poll shows, as you correctly point out, that the majority agrees that hybrids bred for private reasons and NOT FOR RESALE, are ok. Which is in line with the PCS terms and conditions that cover this forum. We do not allow the promotion and sale of hybrids on the forum, but what people do in their own homes is none of our concern. We do not condone the creation of hybrids but in the end people decide for themselves what they want to do.

There are forums dedicated to hybrids and I am sure you guys are members there. So why you see the need to force your views on this topic onto the rest of us here, I'm not sure.
The policy has been in place before I joined, so I don't know when it was first put in place or how it was done. But I was aware of it when I joined and I will leave it at that.

sorry does the club have a consitution at all ? i have not been able to locate it