29 replies to this topic

[kassysimon]

Hey guys.

Which products can i buy from Aqua Green to be used in the Estimative Index?

There is alot of info on the net and its a little confusing because not all the chemicals listed on EI pages are easily available and im hoping the Aqua Green has substitutes for them but i dong know which is which.

Can anybody help me with a dosing regime using products from Aqua Green?

Dino Pee and Dino Spit have been mentioned alot of times as well as using dry ferts but i dont know if i should use both at the same time or not.

Thanks for your help.

Im dosing about 900l.

Cheers.

Simon.

[Craig]

From Aqua Green, I bought KH2PO4 and MgSO4 for EI. Then I bought KNO3 from Aquotix. Aquotix should also be able to sell you a KH buffer if you need that (depending on your local water). I dosed iron via Seachem Flourish iron.

[kassysimon]

can i use the chelated iron grom Aqua Green rather than the Seachem Flourish?

[Mr_docfish]

Most of the chemicals you need you can get here - or print out what you want and pop into Aquotix to save on the $10 freight.

http://www.aquariumo...zers-additives/

if you have an idea what you want as a dry mix, I can organise that for you too.

Edited by Mr_docfish, 19 January 2012 - 08:28 PM.

[Hypanheaven]

i was also looking at this. i spoke to Tom Barr and he said that the dino pee is good except it doenst have any PO4 (or Phosphate) and since i have over 100 fish in my tank, im hopeing they supply enough phosphates through there excretia. So for the time being i have been dosing ~30 drops of dino pee and feeding fish twice daily, water changing ~45% weekly and my hair algea problem has gone and my floor is looking better and free'r from algea and my plants are taking right off especially my glossy which now since being informed how to plant it properly and space it out is slowly crawling my floor.
correct me if im wrong doc.
click me http://www.barrrepor...t-for-EI-dosing

ps: got any of those up aqua atomisers in? will come in tomorrow and grab one if so

[Mr_docfish]

If the plants are doing what you want them to do, and the algae are under control, then at the moment, you are doing the right thing and everything is in balance..... keep in mind that things can change over time, so be prepared to do minor changes to suit, just follow what the plants are telling you.

Got plenty of inline atomizers... just work out what ID your hoses are.

[kassysimon]

Is Dino Pee the only thing your using for your plants?

[Hypanheaven]

Yes, this is what is in Dino pee
It contains :

Nitrogen
Potassium
Magnesium
Iron
Molybdenum
Manganese
Boron
Zink
Copper

So it contains alot of traces including iron.

Ie Craig bought monopotAssium phosphates and Magnesium sulphate, and is also dosing seachem iron, the good thing about pee is it contains all of these in one easy bottle, just squirt and go. Although the levels of each material is not stated we should be able to work out what we are missing from what the plants tell us.

[kassysimon]

OK....


So let me get this right....

Use Dino Pee daily per the instructions on the bottle and top up the nutrients that appear deficient given the guide above?

Is that right?

But doing it this way isnt the estimative index is it?

But it works for you?

would you still do a 50% water change per week?

What i need to achieve is a liquid solution that is easy to administer. I was interested in the EI but premixing the chemicals is what turned me off. I want to use a dosing pump so premixed chemicals wont work.

Thanks

[Craig]

I like to dose each element separately. That way, if you have an Iron deficiency, you can simply dose more iron to compensate.

If you are using a complete fertiliser like Dino Pee and have an iron deficiency, you will have to overdose on other things in order to elevate the iron levels. Possibly leading to algae issues etc...

kassysimon - what do you mean by not being able to use a dosing pump with premixed chemicals? Have a read of waruna's tank journal. He is using dosing pumps with various EI solutions

Is Dino Pee the only thing your using for your plants?

It also depends on the plants you are keeping. Hyphanheaven has less demanding plants, that may be fine with solely Dino Pee. However, if you want to grow more exotic and advanced species, you may find EI is the best way to go

[kassysimon]

if i premix dry chemicals and place them in a reservoir for the dosing pump will the solution react over time or could the chemicals not dilute properly and sink to the bottom of the reservoir?

Im just looking for the easiest solution for an automated tank.

[Hypanheaven]

Over dosing on fertilizers has been proven not to cause algea issues, it's is almost all the time a lack
I co2 or to much light,
Have a good read over Tom Barrs forum as he has experimented over the last 20 years and he made the ei so he's knows what he's doing, ei is intact
Meant to make an abundance of nutrients so there are no deficiencies but its up to you to ensure there's adequate lighting and co2 so that the plants can grow without letting algea get a foot in the door

[kassysimon]

i dont plan on using CO2 just yet so maybe the EI is not the right choice for me at the moment.

Maybe just Dino Pee to start with

[Hypanheaven]

well if you dont use CO2 but you are ferting and having some sort of lighting arrangement i can gaurentee your tank will be an algea abomination.

[kassysimon]

i might try the diy co2 in a 20l drum and see how it goes.

[Hypanheaven]

It would be cheaper to buy a full co2 system. I use a 2.3kg bottle and it lasts easy few months. $20 to refil. To buy the sugar and yeast needed for a 20L drum would be alot to keep doing! If you really want it to work and want to grow plants then don't skimp

[kassysimon]

I just bought a regulator actually. Where do you get your CO2 from?

[Hypanheaven]

Ubrewit Osborne park.

[kassysimon]

i have an empty fire extinguisher. Do you know if that can that be used as a CO2 cannister?

[Mr_docfish]

Do not take everything you read on forums as the only truth.
CO2 ALONE DOES NOT PREVENT ALGAE!!!
The CO2 will assist plant growth, if there is not enough CO2 available, then the plants will use the bicarbonates in the tank.... if you have strong lighting, and you add heaps of ferts (intensive or hi tech plant growing) then you will need to add CO2 to balance out all the requirements the plants need. If the plants do 100%, then they will convert the CO2 to O2 - to a point where they will pearl (saturation of O2 in the water)..... now here comes some biology - plants produce an enzyme called oxidase to protect themselves from the corrosiveness of O2... now algae do not produce as much of this oxidase as higher order plants do - ie: if you add peroxide into an aquarium, you will kill off algae before you harm plants.... now back to the O2 production in a high tech planted tank - if the O2 levels are high for long term, any algae will eventually succumb to it.
Now, if you sterilise and quarantine your plants (like the supremo Tom Bar does) you wont get as many algae issues blowing out in your tank.... but if you do come across an algae problem, it can easily be controlled by looking at the balance of nutrients and trace provided to the tank. This might need water testing - expensive if you look at some of the rarer kits like potassium... so the EI WAS DEVELOPED BY THE DUTCH FOR HYDROPONIC USE long before Tom Bar used it in aquariums..... basically, flush, refill and redose..... the only difficulty was to work out what to add and how much - this is all dependant on the strength of lighting, CO2 availability and plant species.

If you add a small amount of standard complete fert mix (ie Leaf zone, florena) and check your NO3 and PO4 levels then you will still get good plant growth without too many algae issues, and any plants that you find difficult, avoid them and just do plants that prefer you tank as it is, or change the fert regime to suit or add extra lighting and CO2 if required.

Start simple, learn a few easy deficiency symptoms, and advance from there if you wish.

Edited by Mr_docfish, 21 January 2012 - 09:13 PM.